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On Resigning from Google

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211–220 of 295 posts

Re: On Resigning from Google

#211
I admire people who follow their convictions. But, all the faith and all the good intentions in the world do not make for good policy and more importantly harmful policy if acted upon.

I am consistently amazed by the sanctimonious incoherence many people in this candy ass industry feel comfortable espousing.

This industry is where people with no work experience much less life experience are hired at 3-5 times the average American family's salary. This industry is where people who have the OP's 14 years of experience in that level of company can amass wealth that exceeds that of generations of families who didn't have people in the lineage that wrote buggy software for a living. The author worked 14 years in a company that provides the decadence of shit like free food and free dry cleaning. Free food is fucking mind blowing to some people.

Not only that, but the company he's worked for has ALWAYS been about helping others manipulate people. It has always been about taking some of the smartest people the industry has and pointing them at human manipulation because well they are lowly consumer apes and that's OK. Yet, like many on hnn he considers himself worthy of wielding the categorical imperative as if he was a fluffy bunny Thanos because he has joined the club that hates the orange man and supports the approved protected classes while defending the rights of street defecation. I guess 14 years enabling mind fuck INC. has all been cool because he goes to church and is a moral tourist.

The mind numbingly vast majority of techs especially at the major cloud provider level have never ever lived in an environment where physical harm or fatal consequences were the punishment for talking the wrong kind of shit to the wrong person or even being in the wrong area. Their pansy ass, horseshit view of the world is fueled by an existence where they have lived like kings in comparison to many. Yet in their proclamations they are comfortable blithely advocating policies that kill whole industries or leave young soldiers at a disadvantage because well they're good people and some hick who had to go into the military or works on a rig and feeds his family just isn't as noble as someone confused about their gender who would like others to be taxed so they could change it free of charge. Twice.

You can pretty much hear them thinking "Those kinds of people on those rigs vote Republican anyways so fuck them. Pretty sure that's what they said at church right before I took off to get my 6 dollar coffee on the way to spend a couple of hours with the the homeless."

Glad you quit your job. Also glad, you are just another deranged tech who thinks they are on the side of right and justice while being oblivious to their own shoddy and harmful positions instead of someone of consequence who does something like defend our country, farm or roof houses.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#212
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's true, precisely because the employee with a complaint can potentially increase their leverage significantly by educating and organizing other employees around the cause. Your analysis seems to assume that there's some fixed percentage of employees who think some action from their employer is bad, and if that percentage is high enough, then all those employees could quit, which would either someho…

If everyone who participated in the Google Walkout (20% of their workforce) stayed out until Google addressed their complaints, rather than returning to work after their lunch hour was over, all seven demands would've been met, instead of one. (And they probably would've still got paid!) I have my doubts that tech companies could operate with a sudden loss of 20% of their workforce and talent base. If a company knows…

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Re: On Resigning from Google

#213
> In January of 2020, the U.S. President assassinated Iranian General Qassem Soleimani, risking the possibility of World War 3

I generally try to give the author the benefit of the doubt. The writer lost me here.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#214
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying the President of the United States has no effect on the country because the person in office is replaced within the span of a day every four or eight years.

It is, and it would also be accurate. Many things Obama did have been undone in less than 3 years, and the same will happen after Trump leaves.

Trump leaving won't resurrect the children who died in ICE custody anymore than Obama leaving resurrected the wedding party that got hit with a drone-launched smart munition, but this sub-thread feels like a digression from the topic.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#215
If this letter would have started with, "I stayed at Google for 15 years even though I knew it was unethical. I'm a piece of shit. BUT I'm going to try and redeem myself..." then it would have been much better. Some kind of redemption arc.

The damage has already been done, man. You don't magically earn the moral high-ground for "quitting" after 15 years with an angry letter.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#217

The solution to climate change is not to make energy producers like oil and gas companies go out of business. The way these companies became so successful was by providing something of value at a low cost. Do you really want to pay substantially more for heating/cool, gas, and almost every good? Instead, the Tesla model is the way to go. Build products that are 10x better than their fossil fuel reliant competitors. T…

Yes, except: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#218
post #186
post #144

“Oil and gas companies use cloud computing so I’m not going to work on cloud computing” doesn’t seem much more valid to me than “child pornographers use encryption so I’m not going to work on encryption”. It’s a technology that exists, and people will use it to further their goals no matter what you personally do. There is a simple, well-established way for society to discourage certain activities without damaging th…

The analogy is a bit extreme, don't you think so? Isn't there a difference between developing a technology and actively taking part in selling it for a use-case that you disagree with?

IMO it's not. First of all, I doubt many of the engineers here are actively selling the technology to the oil and gas companies directly, or even working on features that are especially designed for oil and gas companies - if they are, I think they have a little more of a case.

Second of all, the relevant point here is that cloud computing capabilities are by default available to any purchaser, just as encryption is available to any user of products that contain it. From a utilitarian standpoint, I think most would agree that encryption and cloud computing are of overall benefit to the world. One might believe that, from a utilitarian standpoint, it would be better to not provide material assistance to oil and gas companies, since they do result in a lot of damage to the planet (although I personally believe the more effective route is to instead actively favor the development and deployment of renewable energy). But that argument is the same in principle as one favoring restrictions on the use of encryption by child pornographers for utilitarian purposes, to say nothing about restrictions on the use of encryption by enemies of your nation (which was the basic argument by the US government in the 1990s about restricting the use of encryption by non-Americans).

Re: On Resigning from Google

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Especially when the nation that would use the drone technology has demonstrated a willingness to use said technology for reckless assassination of other country's citizens without declaration of war.

Well you are free to go live your life under the rule of the Taliban or the Iranian mullahs if you really think they're the good guys in all of this. Edit: There's a flagged-dead reply that says, "I don't, but I also don't think the Haska Meyna wedding party were the bad guys in all of this." Well, I don't think so either, which is why I think it's good to develop technology that improves the ability to accurately re…

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Re: On Resigning from Google

#220
post #39
post #26

Random thoughts: 1. I applaud the fact that they are actually quitting the company to voice their disapproval of these policies. In my mind all the "internal activism" happening at Google and others is massively hypocritical. One cannot publicly criticize a company while enjoying cushy paychecks fueled by those very activities they despise. 2. If they think Google is discriminatory towards LGBT employees and minoriti…

Strongly disagree. > In my mind all the "internal activism" happening at Google and others is massively hypocritical. One cannot publicly criticize a company while enjoying cushy paychecks fueled by those very activities they despise. Absolutely incorrect. Paychecks have nothing to do with whether you as a person find the company's policies palatable or not. Google employees provide a lot more value to Google than th…

> Absolutely incorrect. Paychecks have nothing to do with whether you as a person find the company's policies palatable or not. Google employees provide a lot more value to Google than they are compensated for. They are well within their rights and should be encouraged to voice their honest opinions.

You're wrong. You have an opinion; not a fact. This is no different to the original commenter, but at least (s)he made that very clear.

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