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On Resigning from Google

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Re: On Resigning from Google

#121
post #26

Random thoughts: 1. I applaud the fact that they are actually quitting the company to voice their disapproval of these policies. In my mind all the "internal activism" happening at Google and others is massively hypocritical. One cannot publicly criticize a company while enjoying cushy paychecks fueled by those very activities they despise. 2. If they think Google is discriminatory towards LGBT employees and minoriti…

>One cannot publicly criticize a company while enjoying cushy paychecks Why is it that you think that the people who see the sausage being made are exactly the ones most unqualified to criticize it?

These people aren't seeing the sausage being made — they are the ones making the sausage

Re: On Resigning from Google

#122
My anecdotal observation is that Google is currently experiencing a (slight) brain drain... Many highly qualified and experienced engineers have recently left. I wonder how many 1x engineers it is going to take to maintain all that software when the 100x and 10x engineers are gone. Not a simple math problem.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#123
post #61

The post talks about Google supposedly persecuting LGBTQ employees for speaking up. But the linked articles only talk about them (possibly) getting retaliated against for protesting other issues, like border security or sexual harassment. As an LGBT person (who does her fair share of activism), I'm not clear what the LGBTQ angle is here other than if the people involved happened to be LGBTQ. It seems like even if the…

LGBTQ+ activism doesn't just involve fighting for rights for people who fall within those labels. It has evolved onto fighting for rights of EVERYONE who is currently being harrassed, targetted, and discriminate against. It's activism for human rights for everyone. Not every LGBTQ+ activist agrees with this evolution, but a large group do. I'm personally in that group.

It's absurd to claim that LGBTQ+ activism is about fighting for the rights of everyone who is harrassed, targeted, and discriminated against. The set of groups has expanded, but there are still groups being left out.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#124

The solution to climate change is not to make energy producers like oil and gas companies go out of business. The way these companies became so successful was by providing something of value at a low cost. Do you really want to pay substantially more for heating/cool, gas, and almost every good? Instead, the Tesla model is the way to go. Build products that are 10x better than their fossil fuel reliant competitors. T…

> The solution to climate change is not to make energy producers like oil and gas companies go out of business.

They're going to go out of business in several decades because there won't be any more oil and gas to extract (or rather, there will be a lot less and it'll be difficult and expensive to extract).

> The way these companies became so successful was by providing something of value at a low cost.

The cost is not low if you consider the decades of suffering by people in the middle east and other oil-producing countries due to oppressive regimes put in place so that oil and gas could be extracted at "low cost".

But even regardless of that - so what?

> Do you really want to pay substantially more for heating/cool, gas, and almost every good?

1. If the alternative is even worse climate change, meters of sea level rise, destruction of huge natural habitats etc. then - yes. 2. If you account for the costs of climate change, it's not more expensive to use renewable energy. And there's the cost and detrimental effects of immediate environmental pollution... 3. Renewable energy is no longer that expensive, and it's getting cheaper. In fact, it's become quite competitive:

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/11/22/solar-costs-wind-costs-...

> The government can impose a cost ... it can incentivize...

Yeah, well, maybe those were relevant solutions 40 or 30 years ago. The time is up for that kind of stuff. Far-reaching action is required immediately, since we are on overtime w.r.t. climate effects, and markets be damned.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#125

I currently work at Google, but I am a newbie, i.e less than 5 years at Google. I frequently run in to people who are: 1) always been at Google and enjoyed the fruits of its rise or at another similar environment 2) never had to deal with frugality or lack of funding for anything 3) see themselves are superior to everyone else - in terms of how enlightened they are, how they know whats best for everyone 4) feel that…

> Once this is satisfied, they move on to grander things like charity, investing in the well being of others etc

This is true for the author as well. He worked at google for 15 years, he is probably a multi-millionaire. It's easy to take a stance once they money has been raked in.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure "it's a business" but does that give it a green card to act how it pleases? of course, yes! As long as it stays within the boundaries set by the law. Do you not act as you please? Do you not eat a $40 meal while a homeless person is lying outside in the cold? DO you not send your kid to a private school at $100k/year while the kid down the street (down the highway) struggles for school supplies? > So please, s…

> of course, yes! As long as it stays within the boundaries set by the law. This, it's even mandated by law to appease shareholders by making as much money as possible. Google changing their ways might just increase the number of shareholder x company lawsuits their legal team has to sort out. https://www.litigationandtrial.com/2010/09/articles/series/s...

This is not correct:

"modern corporate law does not require for-profit corporations to pursue profit at the expense of everything else, and many do not do so." --Burwell vs. Hobby Lobby (US Supreme Court, 2014) [0]

[0]: https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/13-354

Re: On Resigning from Google

#127
post #96
post #26

Random thoughts: 1. I applaud the fact that they are actually quitting the company to voice their disapproval of these policies. In my mind all the "internal activism" happening at Google and others is massively hypocritical. One cannot publicly criticize a company while enjoying cushy paychecks fueled by those very activities they despise. 2. If they think Google is discriminatory towards LGBT employees and minoriti…

2. If they think Google is discriminatory towards LGBT employees and minorities, contributing to climate change etc., they are in for a big shock once they are really out of the Google and SV bubble. This is a particularly subversive brand of whataboutism. " Company has participated in Bad Thing ." "Ah, but Other Company also participates in Bad Thing ! Your criticism of Company is therefore invalid!" " Company took…

Whataboutism is one of the most ridiculous accusations thrown around willy-nilly these days. Sure, if you have no idea what happens in the world, you can arbitrarily find anything outrageous. It is trivial to create outrage in a vacuum, blind of all facts that threaten to challenge your rose-tinted world view.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#128

The post talks about Google supposedly persecuting LGBTQ employees for speaking up. But the linked articles only talk about them (possibly) getting retaliated against for protesting other issues, like border security or sexual harassment. As an LGBT person (who does her fair share of activism), I'm not clear what the LGBTQ angle is here other than if the people involved happened to be LGBTQ. It seems like even if the…

You didn't miss anything. These people were fired for independent troublemaking. The fact that they were LGBTQ is a confounding variable that correlates with / causes activist tendencies.

Re: On Resigning from Google

#129
post #83
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider what happens if everyone who has a moral complaint about their employer immediately quits rather than staying around and attempting to chase the complaint up the management hierarchy and/or educate and organize other employees to voice the complaint. I think utilizing one's power as a worker and aligning other workers to increase workers' power is far from hypocritical. It's a great way (perhaps the only rel…

> Consider what happens if everyone who has a moral complaint about their employer immediately quits This is in fact the quickest way to ensure that this behavior immediately stops

Your labor is your only real political power.
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