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Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

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Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#451

Post by leto_ii »

marcosdumay wrote: post #394
leto_ii wrote: post #377

Since I started following HN I've seen these types of articles being posted with some regularity. The findings usually point in the same direction and the press write-up always tries to come up with explanations for why companies decide to do open space offices, how these were thought to improve collaboration etc. At my previous job I have worked for 4 years exclusively in an open space, sometimes even with hot-deski…

> as long as employees (and especially those in tech) do not collectively demand some changes If my employer has a procedure that reduces the productivity of everybody that they hire, why should I care? It does not reduce my competitivity, and my salary is set by the market, not by any single employer.

> and my salary is set by the market, not by any single employer

Employers do have a tendency to collude though. The market for labor is very far from perfect. In most places even tech workers don't really get to negotiate much when they get a job offer.

You should also realize that if most companies have open plan offices your range of options reduces quite a lot. What are you gonna do, only work for the 10% of companies that have other office plans?

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#452

Post by cosmodisk »

nswest23 wrote: post #444
cosmodisk wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is hardly an unknown fact amongst HN readers, a lot of people get very surprised when told about this.I've seen some of my colleagues going to private mode to browse something not work related, and when I explain that tbis won't help at all, they are almost shocked.

you mean everyone doesn't just use their phones for browsing non-work related things?

They do- most of them connected to the company's WiFi :)

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#453

Post by alexeiz »

cosmodisk wrote: post #436
andrei_says_ wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also remember that your company likely logs everyone’s web activity in an easily searcheable format.

While this is hardly an unknown fact amongst HN readers, a lot of people get very surprised when told about this.I've seen some of my colleagues going to private mode to browse something not work related, and when I explain that tbis won't help at all, they are almost shocked.

I am shocked, shocked to find that non-work related browsing is going on here!

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#454

Post by 0xff00ffee »

opo wrote: post #423
0xff00ffee wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said compared to wide open spaces, not compared to employee costs.

The usual cost argument for open floor plans is that by devoting less square feet to each employee, you save money on rent. (The costs to actually put in a door and some sheet rock walls is a one time expense that isn't very high in comparison to the monthly costs for rent.) The reality though is that if employees are less productive, any savings in rent will be small compared to the costs associated with lower worke…

Oh, now I understand your point. That makes a lot more sense. I've bought into the "offices are more expensive" for years but never considered the one-time costs as more of a write-off / deprecation.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#455

Post by pkalinowski »

cosmodisk wrote: post #452
nswest23 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you mean everyone doesn't just use their phones for browsing non-work related things?

They do- most of them connected to the company's WiFi :)

But company doesn't know who has phone with given MAC address, while computers MACs are probably assigned to employee.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#456

Post by krn »

ta_4661 wrote: post #450
krn wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eventually i provided enough dirt on file for them to force me to resign, so i'm now unemployed in my 30s with no references i have any confidence in and enough shame and guilt to put me in the ground should my extreme mental fog ever clear again Have you considered working for a remote-only company, such as GitLab, DuckDuckGo or Buffer? For someone with a chronic depersonalization / derealization disorder a formal…

i have no formal qualifications to speak of and i was in operations so my knowledge is already years out of date, all over the place and not at all relevant to any business operating that way i've struggled learning anything since i left because as bad as people affect me the less time i spend around them the worse the mental fog gets, which makes my ability to focus on any one topic pretty much non-existent attainin…

I know exactly how it feels. And that often nobody around can truly relate with this experience.

It's like being thrown into a dark hole and being left there all by yourself, 24/7, for years.

If you haven't seen it, Numb (2007) has captured this state pretty well:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Aa60FdWbdYY

Also, it seems, there was a related thread here a year ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19018914

That's just a reminder, that you are not alone.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#457

Post by ta_4661 »

krn wrote: post #456
ta_4661 wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have no formal qualifications to speak of and i was in operations so my knowledge is already years out of date, all over the place and not at all relevant to any business operating that way i've struggled learning anything since i left because as bad as people affect me the less time i spend around them the worse the mental fog gets, which makes my ability to focus on any one topic pretty much non-existent attainin…

I know exactly how it feels. And that often nobody around can truly relate with this experience. It's like being thrown into a dark hole and being left there all by yourself, 24/7, for years. If you haven't seen it, Numb (2007) has captured this state pretty well: https://youtube.com/watch?v=Aa60FdWbdYY Also, it seems, there was a related thread here a year ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19018914 That's ju…

i did see numb long before i was conscious of the problem, i will give it a rewatch

giving that thread a read as well

if i leave nothing else behind i hope i'm at some point able to impart some knowledge on how to navigate this, with how we're living our lives i'm worried it will be commonplace before long

thank you again

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#458

Post by cosmodisk »

pkalinowski wrote: post #455
cosmodisk wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do- most of them connected to the company's WiFi :)

But company doesn't know who has phone with given MAC address, while computers MACs are probably assigned to employee.

I'm sure I could trace it back to most people with high level of accuracy, as it's a small company.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#459

Post by ghostly_s »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #428
beart wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that helped me get past this feeling was looking around at other desks and realizing that either a. no one cares what you are doing because they are too busy working on their own stuff or b. half the office is watching youtube anyway.

Also remember that your company likely logs everyone’s web activity in an easily searcheable format.

As someone who actually works on the IT-side of this, your statement is technically correct but my experience suggests a vanishingly-small number of employers actually monitor this data in any rigorous way. The only time I've ever seen an org reviewing web logs was in response to a specific formal HR complaint.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#460

Post by acd »

onion2k wrote: post #90
acd wrote: post #82

Totally agree. IT and other staff needs peace and quiet to concentrate to be productive. People interact less in open plan offices and tend to put on head phones to silence the noise. Since you produce less in open plan offices yes they are not smart. Also there is link to noise pulltion and overall health. Open Office spaces will be more noisy than private offices. https://www.pac-intl.com/pdf/NoisePollutionTakesTol…

IT and other staff needs peace and quiet to concentrate to be productive. I'm not disputing that open plan offices are unproductive, but if you run a company it's just much cheaper to have an open plan office. In many places in the worls rent is high enough for more complex layouts that it would be cheaper to have a few extra junior staff than to have a different office structure. While it could definitely be less pr…

Increased real estate prices has removed private offices for many.
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