Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

dw.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 287 posts

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#11

Post by bilekas »

privateSFacct wrote: post #5

Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Apple should just have phones in France run full clock at all times to comply with this regulation. These types of things don't recognize that phone design is a CONSTANT power management / speed tradeoff. If you demand things run 100% speed at all times - poof - your batter life is gone.

> Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices.

Is there a statement from them to this point ? I couldn't find it in the article.

But this isn't the point anyway really.

The users were not told. > IPhone owners were not informed that installing iOS updates (10.2.1 and 11.2) could slow down their devices

This means that the users would definitely just assume their phones were now in need of upgrade.

Also as for the trade-off between performance and optimisation, thats fine. That was there previously also.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#12

Post by behnamoh »

I think the more important issue is when Apple doesn't provide some features of newer iOS versions to older iPhones, even though they can perfectly run the features. A classic example is the Airdrop which wasn't available for iPhone 4s, but people got it running on their gadgets anyway.

I know that new iOS features are supposed to drive the customers to switch to newer iPhones, but to exclude other users from such features is not right IMO.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#13

Post by cma »

privateSFacct wrote: post #5

Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Apple should just have phones in France run full clock at all times to comply with this regulation. These types of things don't recognize that phone design is a CONSTANT power management / speed tradeoff. If you demand things run 100% speed at all times - poof - your batter life is gone.

Why not prompt the user that the battery is weak, opt in or out to slowness, and mention that they can get the battery changed by a third party for $30 instead of buying a new phone (at the expense of waterproofness rating).

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#14

Post by eitland »

privateSFacct wrote: post #5

Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Apple should just have phones in France run full clock at all times to comply with this regulation. These types of things don't recognize that phone design is a CONSTANT power management / speed tradeoff. If you demand things run 100% speed at all times - poof - your batter life is gone.

I think the message is that Apple (and everyone else) should deliver quality that lasts more than two years.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#15

Post by rbritton »

bilekas wrote: post #11
privateSFacct wrote: post #5

Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Apple should just have phones in France run full clock at all times to comply with this regulation. These types of things don't recognize that phone design is a CONSTANT power management / speed tradeoff. If you demand things run 100% speed at all times - poof - your batter life is gone.

> Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Is there a statement from them to this point ? I couldn't find it in the article. But this isn't the point anyway really. The users were not told. > IPhone owners were not informed that installing iOS updates (10.2.1 and 11.2) could slow down their devices This means that the users would definitely just assume their phones were now in need of upgrad…

They did [0], and to me it's a legitimate course of action to extend device life and minimize support load a bit. However, it should be disclosed clearly and not covered up until it blows up.

[0]: https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-slows-down-older-iphone-batt...

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#16

Post by neohaven »

post_break wrote: post #10
privateSFacct wrote: post #5

Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Apple should just have phones in France run full clock at all times to comply with this regulation. These types of things don't recognize that phone design is a CONSTANT power management / speed tradeoff. If you demand things run 100% speed at all times - poof - your batter life is gone.

Imagine if ford started to detune your engine as you added miles to the car, but DIDNT TELL YOU. You lost X horsepower every 1,000 miles.

Imagine if, to avoid damage to engine parts, engines would keep their heat limits in safe zones to not blow up when friction goes up. Imagine if, when you don't tune up your car, it starts running, factually, with less horsepower.

You do lose X horsepower every 1000 miles. You get it back with your tuneup. Which involves changing the oil.

You lose X MHz every Y% of battery discharge capacity lost. You get it back with your tuneup. Which involves changing the battery.

You don't need to detune maliciously to get the effect Apple is getting here. The system just needs to self-calibrate to a depleting battery... Which is super good for the battery because it won't actually get worse as fast. Discharge cycles, especially close to the discharge limit, puts strain on cells, which have voltage sag closer to end of life.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#17

Post by xuki »

cma wrote: post #13
privateSFacct wrote: post #5

Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Apple should just have phones in France run full clock at all times to comply with this regulation. These types of things don't recognize that phone design is a CONSTANT power management / speed tradeoff. If you demand things run 100% speed at all times - poof - your batter life is gone.

Why not prompt the user that the battery is weak, opt in or out to slowness, and mention that they can get the battery changed by a third party for $30 instead of buying a new phone (at the expense of waterproofness rating).

Exactly what they ended up doing (minus the 3rd party part).

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#18

Post by supergarfield »

dangus wrote: post #9
privateSFacct wrote: post #5

Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Apple should just have phones in France run full clock at all times to comply with this regulation. These types of things don't recognize that phone design is a CONSTANT power management / speed tradeoff. If you demand things run 100% speed at all times - poof - your batter life is gone.

It’s definitely a multifaceted issue, especially because Apple’s communication was so poor. Though it’s not like companies are in the habit of communicating their CPU scheduling strategy to their customers. The customers don’t care nor can the comprehend that information. It still boggles my mind how many people I know refuse to get batteries replaced. The price is totally reasonable from all manufacturers, way more…

> Though it’s not like companies are in the habit of communicating their CPU scheduling strategy to their customers. The customers don’t care nor can the comprehend that information.

I think nobody’s talking about publishing their actual scheduling or CPU throttling algorithm, just about saying "we're slowing the phone down to save battery life, which it seems nearly everybody would understand.

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#19

Post by throwanem »

bilekas wrote: post #11
privateSFacct wrote: post #5

Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Apple should just have phones in France run full clock at all times to comply with this regulation. These types of things don't recognize that phone design is a CONSTANT power management / speed tradeoff. If you demand things run 100% speed at all times - poof - your batter life is gone.

> Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Is there a statement from them to this point ? I couldn't find it in the article. But this isn't the point anyway really. The users were not told. > IPhone owners were not informed that installing iOS updates (10.2.1 and 11.2) could slow down their devices This means that the users would definitely just assume their phones were now in need of upgrad…

That's the problem, yeah. If they'd made the tradeoff clear and advised that a battery replacement would alleviate it, that would be one thing. But the margin on a $50-70 battery replacement is a lot thinner than the margin on a $500-1000 new phone, so...

Re: France fines Apple €25M for iOS software that slowed down older iPhones

#20

Post by pastor_elm »

privateSFacct wrote: post #5

Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices. Apple should just have phones in France run full clock at all times to comply with this regulation. These types of things don't recognize that phone design is a CONSTANT power management / speed tradeoff. If you demand things run 100% speed at all times - poof - your batter life is gone.

>Apple implemented this to help users extend life of older devices.

No they didn't. The software updates didn't properly work on phones with the older batteries, so this was their work around. The options they had were: 1. not allow the updates on those phones, 2. allow the updates and have users deal with potentially having the phones shut down. 3. Offer battery upgrades. 4. Jerry rig a hack to deal with it.

They went with the most subversive option. They were not being benevolent here.

Post reply on HN