95th percentile isn't that hard to reach • Hacker News Board

Re: 95th percentile isn't that hard to reach

#101

Post by pingyong » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 4:37 PM UTC

jvanderbot wrote: post #26

pingyong wrote: post #18

The distinction between "people who participate" and "people who practice" is basically impossible to make, even just in video games . Even the example he gave didn't really work: He says that the top 30% of players in Overwatch can reasonable be expected to want to win. Which I agree with (it's probably an underestimation) - but does this mean that the bottom 70% only "participate"? Because that would mean to get in…

I read it differently. My takeaway (and I think he says as much in the article) was, by being bad among those who practice, you can be 95%ile among those who participate . "I'm also not referring to 95%-ile among people who practice regularly. The "one weird trick" is that, for a lot of activities, being something like 10%-ile among people who practice can make you something like 90%-ile or 99%-ile among people who p…

Oh, I might have misread that - in that case, I completely agree. But I guess "practice makes (almost) perfect!" isn't that controversial of an idea either, lol.

Re: 95th percentile isn't that hard to reach

#102

Post by macd » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

krick wrote: post #57

Yeah, no, that's just about lousy definitions. The premise suggests that it's easy to become 95%-ile in anything, say, deadlifting among men who deadlift and not just entire population of the planet Earth. Before I can suggest author to try, he hastily corrects himself, that it doesn't mean "95%-ile among people who practice regularly", so "men who deadlift" is invalid domain after all. Rather, it should be... "peopl…

If you look at the deadlifting example a little differently: you can get to the 95th percentile of 'people who go to the gym and actually deadlift' in terms of form and being able to lift relative to your height/weight/size/sex/muscle mass/etc.

All of the examples in this post perfectly apply to this situation: people don't record themselves and check form, don't upload those videos to the internet and get feedback, and don't get help from a personal trainer (one who actually knows something about form). This is why you see people in the gym all the time making basic mistakes: rounded back, non-vertical bar path, bending over too much/not enough.

They have more injuries, don't make progress, or don't get the results they want. Yes, you're not going to get to the top 5% in terms of weight lifted without a lot of dedication and time. But that's more of achievement over time/a career than your ability to execute the skill.

Re: 95th percentile isn't that hard to reach

#103

Post by speeder » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

eshyong wrote: post #76

SkyBelow wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Based on my interviewing history I'm not in the 95th percentile of programmers - I'm routinely outright rejected and don't even land the on-site interview. And this is basically my best skill for which I've invested an enormous amount of time and energy. This means you aren't high in the 'programming interview' skill set. While related, I consider it distinctly different than the 'programming' skill set. I think it…

Agreed with your points, although I wouldn't use the word "lie". "Marketing yourself" would be a better way to put it. It's not about falsely representing your experience; it's about knowing and emphasizing your strengths, and aligning that with the needs of the team.

Learned the hard way that lie is mandatory for some questions.

For example: many companies insist on asking how you did "x" (for example solves a conflict of idea of solution) in situation "y" (for example between two teams in same department) and you are obliged to answer something, even if you never been in that situation (a certain multinational company for example asked me that question three times across two different attempts to join them, both of times I failed because this question, I never worked in a company with many departments).

After a lot of Glassdoor reading found out people that got the jobs I wanted, all lied outright, not just embellishments, but outright inventing things that sound plausible.

Re: 95th percentile isn't that hard to reach

#104

Post by vibrolax » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 4:42 PM UTC

cdoxsey wrote: post #12

On the flip side. Sometimes you're just not that good at stuff despite your best efforts. In college I really struggled with math. Which was a challenge because computer science has you take a lot of math classes. In my calculus class I studied so hard for the final. Did every problem in the book. And I still just got a B in the class. At the same time my programming classes were really easy. I didn't study at all an…

Having attended a high school with a poor math program, I had a similar struggle with math in university. My understanding would catch up maybe too late for a grade, but I kept progressing. Seven years into my career I got a job working for an extremely gifted scientist/manager who gave me several projects that required me to learn math a couple levels above my education. Because the problems were interesting and the results really mattered, I had sufficient motivation to overcome the frustration of learning things that didn't come naturally. I found a way into a company that needed good programmers that grew more mathematical over time, and I was lucky enough to have a highly motivating and supported learning environment.

Re: 95th percentile isn't that hard to reach

#105

Post by gowld » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

j7ake wrote: post #92

The definition of 95th percentile is confusing. I think if you scored top 95th at a National exam in high school you would be competitive to choose the university you want. That is impressive. Being 95 percentile in college sports would probably allow you play the sport professionally. Having a website in the 95th percentile in terms of traffic would probably be extremely impressive. Having a 95 percentile restaurant…

> I think if you scored top 95th at a National exam in high school you would be competitive to choose the university you want.

Maybe at a small country (like Germany?) that doesn't have near-100% high school / exam attendance. In the US where 2 million take the SAT and there are less than 100,000 seats at the "top tier" universities, 99%ile is closer to the bar for choosing the university what you want.

Of course if you calibrate your 'want' wisely, then anyone at any percentile can choose the university they want.

-

https://theconversation.com/lets-get-real-with-college-athle...

"Fewer than 2% of college student-athletes ever play professional sports at any level for any amount of time."

-

Bing tells me that France (the home of Michelin) has 30,000 restaurants and 600 (2%) Michelin stars. Other nations have far far lower ratio.

Re: 95th percentile isn't that hard to reach

#106

Post by LanceH » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

tyingq wrote: post #88

bagacrap wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, no, it's not that amazing if it's something every 20th person has. Second, height is not something you should fixate on. The benefits of being tall are generally over reported. In certain arenas like basketball it helps. In others, like running, pants shopping or air travel, it hurts. I think it's probably about the 12th most important factor in person to person interactions, after eye contact, body language,…

"Second, height is not something you should fixate on." I'm not convinced. Many studies illustrate the correlation to success. We are still animals and not-merit factors still matter. Good looks, height, gender, race, symmetry, smell, whatever, etc, are a real "thing". You can overcome it all with mitigation, but it isn't imaginary. That stuff drives real outcomes.

Height could be correlated with "thriving" from infancy through childhood.

Also, I have tall children and they are regularly treated as older than they are, setting expectations higher for them in settings outside of school where they aren't grouped by age.

Re: 95th percentile isn't that hard to reach

#107

Post by aj7 » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 4:45 PM UTC

Once my ass was saved by my Korean immigrant optical coating technician, who fixed an electron beam power supply loaded with MSI IC’s using a multimeter, after the manafacturer couldn’t. (He put two kids through college, owns a dry cleaner shop with packed racks now, and drives a Mercedes.) I initially got him cheap because he could barely speak English.

I wonder what percentile he was?

Re: 95th percentile isn't that hard to reach

#108

Post by lmilcin » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

ivanche wrote: post #96

lmilcin wrote: post #2

I have played couple of games competitively. I have been somewhere in top ten to top three in the world in some of them (we are talking small communities with large number of accidental players, nothing really to brag about). My observation is it is critical to somehow get a feeling what it is/means to be good at the game. This means identifying where is the focus of a good player. Having been playing competitively I…

In a nutshell - you have to do deliberate practice or you stagnate. Musicians know this for ages.

In a nutshell, yes. But deliberate is not enough. You also need to be able to honestly reflect on yourself. Many people are unable to honestly reflect on themselves. They are fooling themselves and made it part of their being so much that they are incapable of being honest.

For example, a person that habitually blames everybody for their failings may undertake a project to write a blog post every day but may be incapable of hearing advice, critical opinions or diagnosing reasons behind non-existing or stagnating readership statistics. They might blame everybody of being stupid or have no taste or not knowing anything about writing.

Re: 95th percentile isn't that hard to reach

#109

Post by C1sc0cat » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

avip wrote: post #90

merrywhether wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a time when a hiring manager said something along the lines of “We’re trying to find Michael Jordan, not Scottie Pippen.” My colleague and I were pretty shocked by this, since Pippen was also a great Hall of Fame basketball player, just not one of the top 3 players of all time.

As an nba fan I find that qoute really misplaced. It's not like you "settle" for a Pippen? He's probably a top 50 player ever.

And Basketball is team game you need a full squad not just one star

Re: 95th percentile isn't that hard to reach

#110

Post by gowld » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 4:46 PM UTC

cdoxsey wrote: post #12

On the flip side. Sometimes you're just not that good at stuff despite your best efforts. In college I really struggled with math. Which was a challenge because computer science has you take a lot of math classes. In my calculus class I studied so hard for the final. Did every problem in the book. And I still just got a B in the class. At the same time my programming classes were really easy. I didn't study at all an…

Have you interviewed as places like Epic (Health Care) or Accenture or Knoxville Microsoft Certified Solution Providers, or only at Bay Area webtech?