Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

whydoeseverythingsuck.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

11–20 of 108 posts

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#11

Post by marchdown »

ghurlman wrote: post #7
chapel wrote: post #4

Apple is notorious for ripping businesses built on their platforms out from under the people that created them. It has happened with OS X by them taking a popular 3rd party utility/app and integrating the idea/look/feel directly with no attribution. It has happened with iOS, and now it is just coming to a point where Apple is flat out saying that if you make money on our platform, regardless if the value is outside o…

It has happened with OS X by them taking a popular 3rd party utility/app and integrating the idea/look/feel directly with no attribution Citation?

Konfabulator comes to mind: http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2005/04/macosx-10-4.ars...

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#12

Post by tomjen3 »

scrrr wrote: post #5
mithaler wrote: post #2

While the OP comes across as a tad hyperbolic, this is what I've thought for a long time: if a business is dependent on the good graces of the provider of a platform it's built on, it simply does not have a working model. It happened before with Facebook credits, and Apple making a similar move is no surprise to me.

Exactly. But how can one oppose new methods of the closed, proprietary system that generates revenue, when the open alternative doesn't?

You make the alternative pay? That's what the angry birds guys did.

But in the more general case, this is where it would have been great to have somebody with a business degree. Because they probably know the answer to your question.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#13

Post by portman »

groby_b wrote: post #10

It seems OP hasn't quite thought this through... Apple does not demand 30% of out-of-app sales, just that out-of-app sales are not cheaper than in-app sales. And as far as I read the release, SaaS is not concerned. Unless you're using Apples subscription mechanism, you're not offering a subscription in-app. So if you simply use a web API, that's not a subscription. Can Apple change that at any time? Yes. Closed platf…

"All we require is that, if a publisher is making a subscription offer outside of the app, the same (or better) offer be made inside the app" -- http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/02/15appstore.html

By this rule, all apps that offer subscriptions must additionally implement Apple's subscription mechanism.

This is what the OP (and everyone else) is reacting to.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#14

Post by jonknee »

groby_b wrote: post #10

It seems OP hasn't quite thought this through... Apple does not demand 30% of out-of-app sales, just that out-of-app sales are not cheaper than in-app sales. And as far as I read the release, SaaS is not concerned. Unless you're using Apples subscription mechanism, you're not offering a subscription in-app. So if you simply use a web API, that's not a subscription. Can Apple change that at any time? Yes. Closed platf…

Apple has suggested that if you offer subscriptions (or purchases) outside of your app that you need to do it inside your app. At the same price. Hence the whole drama over Kindle--the purchases are done on the Amazon website but Apple has stated they want 30%.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#15

Post by towelrod »

scrrr wrote: post #5
mithaler wrote: post #2

While the OP comes across as a tad hyperbolic, this is what I've thought for a long time: if a business is dependent on the good graces of the provider of a platform it's built on, it simply does not have a working model. It happened before with Facebook credits, and Apple making a similar move is no surprise to me.

Exactly. But how can one oppose new methods of the closed, proprietary system that generates revenue, when the open alternative doesn't?

That's not what is happening here. My company makes all of its money from subscription services that we sell directly to customers. Now if we provide a IOS app to access that content, we risk losing 30% of our revenue if the user happens to sign up via the app instead of via our website.

I'm not sure what "open alternative" you are referring to. My website -- built on "open" everything, other than the subscription cost -- is doing fine. I would like to provide a native IOS app to access that content. But I can't accept a 30% revenue cut.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#16

Post by portman »

austintaylor wrote: post #6

The press release begins by referring to "publishers of content-based apps", and uses "publishers" throughout. I think it is pretty clear that they are not talking about SaaS. The article also fails to understand that it is not taking cut of revenue from existing subscribers: only those that sign up through an iOS application.

What would a "content-free" app look like? Aren't all apps, by definition, based on content?

I'm not meaning to be cute or trite -- I'm genuinely confused from the press release which category of apps will fall under these new rules. Which is why we'll need to wait for the legalese in the iOS developer terms to understand what this _really_ means.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#17

Post by allwein »

groby_b wrote: post #10

It seems OP hasn't quite thought this through... Apple does not demand 30% of out-of-app sales, just that out-of-app sales are not cheaper than in-app sales. And as far as I read the release, SaaS is not concerned. Unless you're using Apples subscription mechanism, you're not offering a subscription in-app. So if you simply use a web API, that's not a subscription. Can Apple change that at any time? Yes. Closed platf…

>And as far as I read the release, SaaS is not concerned. Unless you're using Apples subscription mechanism, you're not offering a subscription in-app. So if you simply use a web API, that's not a subscription.

That's the point that you're missing. If you offer subscriptions or purchases out-of-app for use by the app, You are REQUIRED to offer subscriptions or purchases in-app as well for the same price and minus Apple's 30% cut.

Section 11.13 of the approval guidelines read: "Apps can read or play approved content (magazines, newspapers, books, audio, music, video) that is sold outside of the app, for which Apple will not receive any portion of the revenues, provided that the same content is also offered in the app using IAP at the same price or less than it is offered outside the app. This applies to both purchased content and subscriptions."

So the whole question comes down to whether SAAS counts as a subscription, content, or otherwise.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#18

Post by towelrod »

russnewcomer wrote: post #3

I've read Apple's release a couple of times. I think someone should directly ask them what their policy is on SaaS subscriptions, because you could easily make a case either way from the press release. But I agree with the article, if Apple's intent is to get into the SaaS revenue stream, it's a major issue. I have clients who have been considering moving to platforms that include mobile apps on iOS devices, and that…

Why is it only a major issue if it relates to SaaS? Isn't screwing over Amazon and anyone else selling that kind of content already a major issue?

Anyway, Apple clearly wants this to apply to XaaS, where X = anything and S = subscription. Or by this time next year, Xaa$.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#19

Post by hsuresh »

towelrod wrote: post #15
scrrr wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. But how can one oppose new methods of the closed, proprietary system that generates revenue, when the open alternative doesn't?

That's not what is happening here. My company makes all of its money from subscription services that we sell directly to customers. Now if we provide a IOS app to access that content, we risk losing 30% of our revenue if the user happens to sign up via the app instead of via our website. I'm not sure what "open alternative" you are referring to. My website -- built on "open" everything, other than the subscription co…

>I'm not sure what "open alternative" you are referring to.

I think the OP was referring to Android.

Re: Apple is actually asking for 100% of SaaS mobile revenue

#20

Post by protomyth »

marchdown wrote: post #11
ghurlman wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has happened with OS X by them taking a popular 3rd party utility/app and integrating the idea/look/feel directly with no attribution Citation?

Konfabulator comes to mind: http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2005/04/macosx-10-4.ars...

This subscription model I have a problem with, but....

Ignoring the original Mac OS (and all the OS version up to 9) is the only way to say they ripped off Konfabulator. Desk Accessories finally make an appearance in OS X after missing since OS 9 and it is a ripoff of Konfabulator?

Post reply on HN