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No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#521
post #481
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of things in what you wrote. For example, My assignment was to build a command line app. The spec given said nothing about how bad inputs should be handled. How should they be handled? No Op? Throw exception? Friendly error messages? How? Note how the evaluation changes from one person to other, you could be someone who expects an exception to be printed, I could be someone who expects an exception t…

> In 24 hours? No, not in 24 hours. In about 2 hours. The laundry list of things - api validation, error handling, db migrations, good naming - it's pretty routine. A person writing production apis will have no trouble integrating all of it in a very short period of time. This is after all what we do everyday. If a candidate thinks not having sql injection in the code is an explicit requirement or is going to take a…

Exactly, if you provide the laundry list its easy to validate your assignment against it.

You submitted code which doesn't have things in my laundry list. Noticeably your db calls aren't surrounded by try/except. You have written no documentation. You didn't ship the code with git repo. No unit or functional test cases. I also expect these days one would use Python's typing library. Most of this helps in code maintainability. The fact that your assignment has none of this means you can't be hired to write production code ....

... See where this is going?

Despite you having written the code, someone with a different laundry list of quality checks can fail you.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that it's an automatic red flag. 8 hours? Yeah that's too long. But I would rather do a 2 hour take-home project than a 2 hour whiteboard coding interview. Edit to add: as far as getting paid, nobody expects to get paid for an onsite interview so I wouldn't expect to get paid for a take home project either. As long as it takes the same amount of time that the coding portion of an onsite interview reasonabl…

But it's an indication of the companies value of an employees time, in that it's one sided. If they're paying an existing employee to babysit me, that's a cost to them that demonstrates at least some expended effort. I'd consider this to be pretty important for a salaried position.

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Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#523

I'm so disappointed to read comments on this thread to the effect of "There's nothing in it for the company but risk". I once put in about 8 hours on a take home project at a company (well known in these parts) that I had tremendous respect for, only to get an email back with "sorry, not up to par. We need someone with more experience". I asked them for a couple quick points on what I could have done better. I had ze…

I had a guy at Qualcomm Austin tell me to read Advanced Compiler Design and Implementation by Muchnik. I read it and a few months later I was working for Qualcomm San Diego. I've thought about thanking him but I doubt he'd remember me, it was such a small comment.

Is this still a book that should be read nowadays ? I am slowly going through "Engineering a Compiler". Muchnik's book was written in '97 so unsure.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be happy to take a look at some code if you like. noahjkingsley//gmail

This has the implicit right answer: A job interview is the worst moment/place for feedback. There is just too much heart/animosity at stake on both sides. I've been interviewing candidates for more than 15 years (for PhD /RA positions and then for Engineering) and every time I've given honest feedback, candidates just get into an argument on why they think the feedback does not apply to them... It is just not worth i…

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Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree that it's an automatic red flag. 8 hours? Yeah that's too long. But I would rather do a 2 hour take-home project than a 2 hour whiteboard coding interview. Edit to add: as far as getting paid, nobody expects to get paid for an onsite interview so I wouldn't expect to get paid for a take home project either. As long as it takes the same amount of time that the coding portion of an onsite interview reasonabl…

Who said a take-home project won't be followed by 2 hours of whiteboarding?

Read that as "waterboarding" :-)

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#526
post #521
post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In 24 hours? No, not in 24 hours. In about 2 hours. The laundry list of things - api validation, error handling, db migrations, good naming - it's pretty routine. A person writing production apis will have no trouble integrating all of it in a very short period of time. This is after all what we do everyday. If a candidate thinks not having sql injection in the code is an explicit requirement or is going to take a…

Exactly, if you provide the laundry list its easy to validate your assignment against it. You submitted code which doesn't have things in my laundry list. Noticeably your db calls aren't surrounded by try/except. You have written no documentation. You didn't ship the code with git repo. No unit or functional test cases. I also expect these days one would use Python's typing library. Most of this helps in code maintai…

> Exactly, if you provide the laundry list its easy to validate your assignment against it.

There is no laundry list. There is an expectation that a senior engineer writes codes like a senior engineer.

> You submitted code which doesn't have things in my laundry list. Noticeably your db calls aren't surrounded by try/except. You have written no documentation. You didn't ship the code with git repo. No unit or functional test cases. I also expect these days one would use Python's typing library. Most of this helps in code maintainability. The fact that your assignment has none of this means you can't be hired to write production code ....

Not sure if you are really this dense or playing dense - the point of the comment was to show that your assumption about api validation and sql injection being explicit requirements or taking too much time is ridiculous. It' simple that it can be written in a comment in about 10 minutes, not the "24 hours" or whatever you claim it is going to take.

The very fact that you think sql injection is an explicit requirement or takes work will be an instant deal breaker for any position with the possible exception of fresh grad positions.

> ... See where this is going?

Yes, I do. You are arguing reductio ad absurdum to hide the fact that the things which you claimed unreasonable are in fact routine, and your time estimates are off by order of 10.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#527
post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers at companies have much bigger fish to fry like constantly reviewing sales and customer contracts in the high six figure ballpark not reviewing the risk of the feedback for every rejected candidate. For the latter their answer is always clear cut, "don't give any meaningful feedback to avoid ANY AND ALL risk of litigation, period". Their job is to keep the company safe from any litigation risk, no matter how s…

Their job should be to help manage the litigation risks so that the companies can assume those risks that provide sufficiently high returns.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but outside of the SV bubble(see Europe) most companies don't see feedback from rejected employees as a high return ("who cares what some people that were not good enough for us think?") since the're never in the firing range of reddit/twitter mobs like the big FAANGs.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#528

I'm so disappointed to read comments on this thread to the effect of "There's nothing in it for the company but risk". I once put in about 8 hours on a take home project at a company (well known in these parts) that I had tremendous respect for, only to get an email back with "sorry, not up to par. We need someone with more experience". I asked them for a couple quick points on what I could have done better. I had ze…

I get how the interview experience can be inhumane and all, and I’ve been through my fair share of shitty interview experiences. But feeling disappointed about not getting feedback from your performance?

You’d need to assume interview feedback is constructive and relevant to your professional growth, interviewers are well-trained, interview processes are fair, and candidates receiving feedback are capable and willing to act positively on it. From my experience, having all of these factors be true isn’t all that common, and one of these factors is beyond the company’s control.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#529
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: you could hire someone who did absolutely well in the interview, and they could find a few weeks into the job that they loathe everyone, and go on a social media rampage. What I’m getting at is, there will always be bad apples, or people who react in a way that damages your organization. But not providing useful feedback to people who ask for it simply because one person went crazy is punishing a lot more p…

In our case, it's not an iron-clad no feedback allowed policy. We're just much more careful about giving it, approval is given on a case-by-case basis. A good typical whiteboard interview naturally includes hints, feedback, and collaboration. After several hours of it, we have a very good idea of how well they may respond to feedback from members of our organization. Honestly, I love giving feedback. I love helping c…

>The harsh reality is, many people that don't pass on the interview are people we do not want in the industry. The good ones we give every hint and help we can.

It's pretty bold of you to claim your interview can accurately qualify candidates across the entire industry.

Maybe you have found an interview that works for most companies? There's chests of gold waiting for you if you have.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#530
post #6

One time we gave feedback on request and the candidate contested the feedback, then went out on a social media rampage. So yeah, we stopped after that. It only takes one bad candidate to make it not worth the effort.

What was your feedback like? Did it have data and actionable suggestions to improve?
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