China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus • Hacker News Board

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#121

Post by c0restraint » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 12:49 AM UTC

AlbertoGP wrote: post #116

AlbertoGP wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those interested in knowing more about this, from people that have lived in China for a long time, had families there, and have daily contact with others that still live there, I recommend these videos: “Coronavirus: the lies and the truths” (29th of January) “Let’s look at a timeline of what’s happened to see how slowly it has been dealt with, and how the information was actively suppressed.” https://www.youtube…

This just in: that doctor that raised the first alarm and was silenced back in December has died from it: https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1178792.shtml https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1225440373880782848

Neither of those links are working for me right now... first one is “not found” and second one is “doesn’t exist”

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#122

Post by DarthGhandi » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 3:23 AM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #102

DarthGhandi wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I haven't really dug into An international collective of doctors and scientists who advise the World Health Organisation said this isn't a these you currently, why exactly do you have any reason to doubt them? Only have to look at the other response here to see how certain types with absolutely no concern for the truth want to dominate this debate, it's just another opportunity for them, nothing else. The WHO has b…

The World Health Organisation had not said "this isn't a these you currently" or anything to that effect. They are a scientific body that does not consider it it's remit to comment on Chinese politics. At least some Chinese officials suppressed information in the early days.

I'm sorry I made a spelling/grammar mistake, please forgive me. Thanks for quoting it.

Now which body do you trust more, also which one says it's not a problem and people shouldn't be worried: The Chinese govt or the World Health Organisation?

People panicked about this situation and spreading false information are the ones to worry about, not those with the virus.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#123

Post by Bendingo » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 5:58 AM UTC

unityByFreedom wrote: post #83

apatters wrote: post #20

Just dropping a link here, anyone who is concerned about the coronavirus and has opinions about it should imo read the daily situation reports from the WHO: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2... In 5 minutes a day you will have a better informed perspective than what any news sites provide, my own alarm has lessened considerably after reading these.

The WHO is captured by China. You're not going to get any reports from doctors who have challenged the CCP narrative there.

Wow. That's quite an imaginative claim. Got anything to support it?

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#124

Post by unityByFreedom » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 6:06 AM UTC

Bendingo wrote: post #123

unityByFreedom wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The WHO is captured by China. You're not going to get any reports from doctors who have challenged the CCP narrative there.

Wow. That's quite an imaginative claim. Got anything to support it?

It doesn't take much imagination. The head of the WHO does not recommend banning travel to/from China and constantly praises China's actions regarding this virus. Meanwhile, China arrested the very doctors who attempted to alert the public about the virus, and is effectively using quarantine within its own borders to stop its spread. So it makes no sense for the WHO to complain, on behalf of China, about travel bans, when China is implementing a massive travel ban on itself internally.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#125

Post by dragonwriter » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 6:58 AM UTC

hurrdurr2 wrote: post #56

sliken wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They new about it for weeks, 5M people left Wuhan, and then they started the quarantine. You think that should be praised?

It's so easy to simply arm chair general this kind of event isn't it? Right now most of China is locked down... look at it this way, people are genuinely suffering and dying over there in droves and not so much over here. I can at least be appreciative of their sacrifice.

> look at it this way, people are genuinely suffering and dying over there in droves and not so much over here. I can at least be appreciative of their sacrifice.

They aren't being sacrificed by the central government for us, they are being sacrificed to protect the rest of China. That has incidental benefits for not-China, but its not China sacrificing for not-China, its China sacrificing parts of China for China.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#126

Post by apatters » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 10:47 AM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #118

apatters wrote: post #20

Just dropping a link here, anyone who is concerned about the coronavirus and has opinions about it should imo read the daily situation reports from the WHO: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2... In 5 minutes a day you will have a better informed perspective than what any news sites provide, my own alarm has lessened considerably after reading these.

Curious as to what's making you feel better from those reports. Reading today's, the documented cases in China grew 15% in the last 24 hours , and cases outside China grew by almost the same. It seems highly unlikely that this is going to be able to be contained, even assuming that China's numbers are remotely accurate.

Fair question, it's not that the situation is looking great, but that the media is making it look worse than it currently is.

Outside of China the worst hit countries have a little more than two dozen cases and there's only been a single death. It makes me not be afraid of this disease. My chance of getting it is crazy low and if I do I will likely just have a mild to bad flu.

Of course things can and probably will get worse, we'll see by how much.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#127

Post by apatters » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 10:52 AM UTC

DarthGhandi wrote: post #122

tim333 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The World Health Organisation had not said "this isn't a these you currently" or anything to that effect. They are a scientific body that does not consider it it's remit to comment on Chinese politics. At least some Chinese officials suppressed information in the early days.

I'm sorry I made a spelling/grammar mistake, please forgive me. Thanks for quoting it. Now which body do you trust more, also which one says it's not a problem and people shouldn't be worried: The Chinese govt or the World Health Organisation? People panicked about this situation and spreading false information are the ones to worry about, not those with the virus.

There's always going to be someone on the Internet saying something terrible and extreme about any topic. I'm not really sure what to say about that other than it's not changing any time soon, and I'm glad I stopped keeping my phone on me 24/7 because now I don't see it as much.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#128

Post by zhongjiewu » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 12:08 PM UTC

aaron695 wrote: post #119

zhongjiewu wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not entirely true. This sacrifice entails two things. On one side, without a lockdown, people in Human can seek medical help in other cities and provinces when they get sick. After a lockdown, local medical resources are in severe shortage hence higher death rate. On the other side, it limits the spread of the disease for the good of other provinces and hence the rest of the world. If this isn't sacrifice, I'm…

> After a lockdown, local medical resources are in severe shortage hence higher death rate No, this is false. Supplies and doctors still came in after lock down. Lots of them because they were not needed elsewhere. > On one side, without a lockdown, people in Human can seek medical help in other cities and provinces when they get sick. This is also false. As soon as they leave they spread the virus any other hospital…

> Supplies and doctors still came in after lock down. You mean the government get doctors from other cities to Wuhan because they are not needed, regardless if Wuhan is in medical shortage? This is a weird logic that I cannot agree. IMO, mobilizing doctors from hundreds of miles away, which costs a lot money and management effort, is exactly an attempt to solve the shortage issue. There are various video materials showing super crowded hospitals in Wuhan and other Hubei cities. It is also consistent with building not one, but two temporary hospitals with thousands of workers at much pricier cost.

Based on the activity data from TV news, fever related medical visit stays in single digit nationwide. If lock down are not announced and enforced, people in Hunan that are richer will flood to other cities such as Shanghai and Beijing for better medical services, as this happens from several news reports. People would choose to travel since their immediate action will not cause medical shortage elsewhere before they are handled. The idea of seeking medical help elsewhere will make matters worse is correct, but it is a macro level insight and will not change these people's mind to grasp these resources before they are gone.

It is not deniable that without a lockdown, people in Hubei province will on average get medical help in the short run and everybody else is much worse off. This is why it's not a sacrifice.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#129

Post by zhongjiewu » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 12:14 PM UTC

unityByFreedom wrote: post #124

Bendingo wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. That's quite an imaginative claim. Got anything to support it?

It doesn't take much imagination. The head of the WHO does not recommend banning travel to/from China and constantly praises China's actions regarding this virus. Meanwhile, China arrested the very doctors who attempted to alert the public about the virus, and is effectively using quarantine within its own borders to stop its spread. So it makes no sense for the WHO to complain, on behalf of China, about travel bans,…

Correction: not arrest. They were summoned and given written warnings. China is quarantine one Province. Travel between other provinces are still not affected. International travel bans is basically as strict as traveling out of Hubei province, stricter than average travel restrictions in China.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#130

Post by ryanwaggoner » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

apatters wrote: post #126

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious as to what's making you feel better from those reports. Reading today's, the documented cases in China grew 15% in the last 24 hours , and cases outside China grew by almost the same. It seems highly unlikely that this is going to be able to be contained, even assuming that China's numbers are remotely accurate.

Fair question, it's not that the situation is looking great, but that the media is making it look worse than it currently is. Outside of China the worst hit countries have a little more than two dozen cases and there's only been a single death. It makes me not be afraid of this disease. My chance of getting it is crazy low and if I do I will likely just have a mild to bad flu. Of course things can and probably will g…

It does seem like countries other than China have it under control currently, which is really good news.

But the reason for concern isn’t your chances of getting this virus today, which is extremely remote unless you’re in Wuhan. The concern is that China can’t contain this and it’s only a matter of time until it becomes a global pandemic, with the risk of killing millions and overwhelming medical infrastructures. There’s a reason so many epidemiologists seem worried...