Before the DNS: how yours truly upstaged the NIC's official HOSTS.TXT (2004)
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Re: Before the DNS: how yours truly upstaged the NIC's official HOSTS.TXT (2004)
#2So, you removed what little security there was at the time to make sure that the machine pointed to by a host name actually had some connection to what the hostname implied. This is just one step below making the HOST.TXT file world editable. The NIC had a good reason for not adopting your method.
Re: Before the DNS: how yours truly upstaged the NIC's official HOSTS.TXT (2004)
#3>I would then telnet or ftp to these nameless hosts and see what host name the operating system login prompt gave me or what host name the ftp server announced in its greeting. I would then plug this information into my systems host table. So, you removed what little security there was at the time to make sure that the machine pointed to by a host name actually had some connection to what the hostname implied. This i…
Re: Before the DNS: how yours truly upstaged the NIC's official HOSTS.TXT (2004)
#4>I would then telnet or ftp to these nameless hosts and see what host name the operating system login prompt gave me or what host name the ftp server announced in its greeting. I would then plug this information into my systems host table. So, you removed what little security there was at the time to make sure that the machine pointed to by a host name actually had some connection to what the hostname implied. This i…
Re: Before the DNS: how yours truly upstaged the NIC's official HOSTS.TXT (2004)
#5Fortunately, I got wind of this, and as the DISA.MIL Technical POC, I had a meeting with them. Ultimately, I was able to convince them of the folly of their ways, and to use real DNS servers as registered from the NIC, and to use real network numbers as registered from the NIC.
The kicker was that I knew they ultimately wanted to be able to connect the classified SIPRnet to the “unwashed masses”, through a mythical “multi level secure gateway” that the NSA was supposedly building which would theoretically keep the truly classified stuff from touching the unclassified stuff.
But how would you route packets from one side to the other, if you had colliding network numbers because one side just pulled random numbers out of their ass?
How would you connect through to the unclassified side, if you weren’t using the “real” DNS?
Yes, this was 1995, and they still thought HOSTS.TXT files were a good idea.
To those of you who have used SIPRnet, you’re welcome.
Re: Before the DNS: how yours truly upstaged the NIC's official HOSTS.TXT (2004)
#6And in 1995, when the Defense Information Systems Agency was building the classified SIPRnet, the principal network manager wanted to use HOSTS.TXT tables instead of the DNS, because they thought it would be easier. They also wanted to use random network numbers pulled out of their ass, for the same reason. Fortunately, I got wind of this, and as the DISA.MIL Technical POC, I had a meeting with them. Ultimately, I wa…
I worked for someone a few years ago who wanted me to build tooling manage the hosts file across several hundred devices.
When I said no that that's exactly what DNS servers are for, they got shitty and went on about how DNS was unreliable and the cause of so many outages.
Re: Before the DNS: how yours truly upstaged the NIC's official HOSTS.TXT (2004)
#7>I would then telnet or ftp to these nameless hosts and see what host name the operating system login prompt gave me or what host name the ftp server announced in its greeting. I would then plug this information into my systems host table. So, you removed what little security there was at the time to make sure that the machine pointed to by a host name actually had some connection to what the hostname implied. This i…
This guy's host file became popular mostly because local sysadmins were too lazy to add their own hosts.
Re: Before the DNS: how yours truly upstaged the NIC's official HOSTS.TXT (2004)
#8And in 1995, when the Defense Information Systems Agency was building the classified SIPRnet, the principal network manager wanted to use HOSTS.TXT tables instead of the DNS, because they thought it would be easier. They also wanted to use random network numbers pulled out of their ass, for the same reason. Fortunately, I got wind of this, and as the DISA.MIL Technical POC, I had a meeting with them. Ultimately, I wa…
There are, unfortunately, people who still think this way. I worked for someone a few years ago who wanted me to build tooling manage the hosts file across several hundred devices. When I said no that that's exactly what DNS servers are for, they got shitty and went on about how DNS was unreliable and the cause of so many outages.
I have seen the same line of thinking in many other contexts - "Why don't we just replace problematic component X with other component Y" where X is, genuinely, not great but Y would need to be shaped just like X and our problems with X are actually its shape, and if you were able to reshape Y, you might as well just reshape X and not bother deploying Y. But I'm not sure this fallacy has a name.
Re: Before the DNS: how yours truly upstaged the NIC's official HOSTS.TXT (2004)
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are, unfortunately, people who still think this way. I worked for someone a few years ago who wanted me to build tooling manage the hosts file across several hundred devices. When I said no that that's exactly what DNS servers are for, they got shitty and went on about how DNS was unreliable and the cause of so many outages.
I wish I had a term for this sort of confusion. On the one hand, yes, DNS is the cause of many outages, and yes, in particular uncommon circumstances ("small networks" and "having an unusually good system for syncing text files that you're already keeping at five nines", etc.), syncing a hosts file might be reasonable. But most DNS outages aren't about DNS itself as a protocol, and won't be addressed by syncing the h…
Correct.
> I'm not sure this fallacy has a name.
In this case it was a mistrust of any kind of automation. The line of thinking that if the automation can do all of this, what will they do?
DHCP was removed from the network and over a thousand devices were set to use static IPs because someone had plugged in a device with a DHCP server on it. It was DHCPs problem, not that the network switches were not configured to block DHCP Responses except from authorised hosts.
Every machine had it's OS and software manually installed, because imaging 'never worked right'.
Active Directory wasn't used, because AD was a 'single point of failure', and so local accounts on everything.
Then when AD was eventually rolled out (and with it DNS/DHCP/etc)... Every machine had the printers manually configured, because group policies 'never work'.
Re: Before the DNS: how yours truly upstaged the NIC's official HOSTS.TXT (2004)
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are, unfortunately, people who still think this way. I worked for someone a few years ago who wanted me to build tooling manage the hosts file across several hundred devices. When I said no that that's exactly what DNS servers are for, they got shitty and went on about how DNS was unreliable and the cause of so many outages.
I wish I had a term for this sort of confusion. On the one hand, yes, DNS is the cause of many outages, and yes, in particular uncommon circumstances ("small networks" and "having an unusually good system for syncing text files that you're already keeping at five nines", etc.), syncing a hosts file might be reasonable. But most DNS outages aren't about DNS itself as a protocol, and won't be addressed by syncing the h…
For internal networks this is obvious. I had hundreds of machines syncd up on my hosts file in the 1990s so global DNS outages didn’t affect my internal connectivity. Win.
If you make a mistake in DNS you either wait for caches to discover your correction or you ring up a bunch of other sysadmins and get them to restart named. If you rsync hosts files you just run rsync again. Easy.
If you are trying to diagnose a name problem, you check the hosts file. If you use DNS even for your internal name discovery you have to check every resolv.conf every listed nameserver and compare with going to the roots. What’s the point? This runbook is long while running rsync is easy!
New protocols want IP mobility and cloud discovery- what does DNS do here? Causes problems that’s what. What do you do if you want to address a service instead of a machine? Know any browsers using SRV records?
And what about the home user? My printer is dell12345.local but how does DNS know that? The dhcp server could’ve told it but what stops clients from lying? Who signs the SSL certificate for my printer? How does layering on one more piece of bullshit like DNS help anything?
So not only is DNS not an obvious choice for anything new now, it wasn’t an obvious choice for this new thing then (naming federation). Communication was slower then and tech/science has always been a certain amount of cargo cult/echo chamber. These guys don’t know what they’re doing but they’re exhausting and they’re going to do it anyway. So we end up with the worst thing that could possibly succeed: DNS.
So yeah. DNS problems are absolutely because of DNS and almost anything will work better for any specific use-case. That means part of the reason this “fallacy” doesn’t have a name is because it isn’t a fallacy. Some things just suck, and seeking out a workaround sometimes any workaround needs to be considered a cry for help instead of browbeating them with how great DNS is and hope they end up with Stockholm syndrome.