No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback • Hacker News Board

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#231

Post by na85 » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 1:05 AM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #209

Thriptic wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They gain the goodwill of a prospective employee who might cycle back and be a great fit later on in their career (and who has more skills then). It's also about what they don't lose, which is not only me but potentially other prospective candidates. Know what happens when someone mentions they are considering applying to a place that never got back to me? I tell them don't apply there, they waste your time / they do…

And providing feedback is very likely to hurt your reputation. One major company did give me feedback, and I've made fun of them endlessly for it - they explained that the manager loved me, I did great on systems design and architecture, but I couldn't pass the hiring committee because I didn't do well enough on tree traversal tricks.

That company's problem is their shit-tier hiring process, not the fact that they give feedback.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#232

Post by mc3 » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 1:05 AM UTC

mrfusion wrote: post #150

kenhwang wrote: post #6

One time we gave feedback on request and the candidate contested the feedback, then went out on a social media rampage. So yeah, we stopped after that. It only takes one bad candidate to make it not worth the effort.

You should produce it in “I feel” phrases. That makes it known that it’s your opinion and could be wrong. Treat it like couples therapy.

My internal translation: "I feel" -> "I have concluded, based on no evidence"

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#233

Post by Apocryphon » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 1:08 AM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #224

Apocryphon wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that’s allowing risk adverse mentalities to prevent companies from innovating in their hiring processes to build a more transparent and improved culture of hiring, and a chance to differentiate themselves from competitors with a reputation of good interviewing practices?

Sure. > Then maybe there can be a system that provides a disclaimer where they waive all ability to sue or otherwise get into a fight with you. This ain't gonna help though, because it's not particularly useful at preventing the damage that these companies are afraid of, so it's not really going to tilt the existing balance.

I just think companies don’t nearly take anonymous social media backlash as seriously as this discussion alleges they do. Anecdotally, companies barely take customer/client complaints on social media seriously, unless it goes viral- but how would that happen in the case of giving feedback to an applicant? Hard for it to be big news unless actual discriminatory practices emerged- in which the current system already fails to protect against.

Perhaps companies are just behaving too conservatively, and there is room for interviewing platforms to improving the hiring process by giving the helpful feedback that applicants crave.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#234

Post by josephg » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 1:11 AM UTC

nkingsy wrote: post #170

ddelt wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: you could hire someone who did absolutely well in the interview, and they could find a few weeks into the job that they loathe everyone, and go on a social media rampage. What I’m getting at is, there will always be bad apples, or people who react in a way that damages your organization. But not providing useful feedback to people who ask for it simply because one person went crazy is punishing a lot more p…

This is a tried and true practice in dating, and it translates well to hiring, which is basically the same thing. Most people, ESPECIALLY people who ask you for feedback, do not want feedback. They want to get in a fight with you. Edit: I don't remember ghosting anyone personally in either setting, but it's happened to me plenty. Getting upset about it just means you're new to the experience.

> Most people, ESPECIALLY people who ask you for feedback, do not want feedback.

The data I've seen suggests you're totally wrong about this.

I work at a company in the recruiting space. My primary role is interviewing technical candidates, and we provide very detailed feedback to candidates of all levels, regardless of whether or not we move forward with them.

People consistently tell us they love the feedback that we provide - in fact, people say the feedback we provide is one of the best parts of their experience with us.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#235

Post by drchickensalad » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 1:11 AM UTC

jscotto wrote: post #191

nkingsy wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tried and true practice in dating, and it translates well to hiring, which is basically the same thing. Most people, ESPECIALLY people who ask you for feedback, do not want feedback. They want to get in a fight with you. Edit: I don't remember ghosting anyone personally in either setting, but it's happened to me plenty. Getting upset about it just means you're new to the experience.

Honestly as someone who is looking for a junior role this could not be further from the truth. I just want to know how to improve so I can stop being unhappy at my current job and get a new one.

I'm a little bit busy temporarily but I feel I can help you out. Email is the following backwards with symbols added: com live brandonbrowning

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#236

Post by real_eng_ » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 1:12 AM UTC

ddelt wrote: post #169

kenhwang wrote: post #6

One time we gave feedback on request and the candidate contested the feedback, then went out on a social media rampage. So yeah, we stopped after that. It only takes one bad candidate to make it not worth the effort.

Hot take: you could hire someone who did absolutely well in the interview, and they could find a few weeks into the job that they loathe everyone, and go on a social media rampage. What I’m getting at is, there will always be bad apples, or people who react in a way that damages your organization. But not providing useful feedback to people who ask for it simply because one person went crazy is punishing a lot more p…

Please stop referring to software developers as engineers, unless they are fully registered members of the state association of engineers.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#237

Post by rendall » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 1:12 AM UTC

thrwaway5556 wrote: post #196

There's no real affordance for engineers to sue or censure the process. I once did some interviewing with a broken wrist that dragged on me two ways: 1) I basically couldn't speed-code at all. Typing was inhibited for sure, but the friction point threw off my whole thought process. 2) Whiteboard coding was easier, but due to swelling, I usually had to have my arm atop my head or hold it in weird positions. So by law…

Gah, what a terrible company. I'm sorry you went through that.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#238

Post by LordFast » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 1:13 AM UTC

tmpz22 wrote: post #138

LordFast wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, refreshing to see that someone still remembers how to do company-building.

Most companies lack the resources/willpower to train/code-review/mentor their own employees, expecting them to do it for candidates is kind of naive. So do it at your company and have a competitive advantage.

Done it. Worked really well (got great people, which got more great people, virtuous cycle etc). Struggled to convince a couple of other companies to adopt the mindset. Hoping to do it again some day.

Yeah, life's hard. But isn't that why it's worth it to fight for a better life? I get it though, "better" is relative.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#239

Post by intrepidhero » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 1:13 AM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #212

Apocryphon wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then maybe there can be a system that provides a disclaimer where they waive all ability to sue or otherwise get into a fight with you.

If they blab their mouth on social media and it goes viral they've already done the damage before you could serve court papers. Why even bother with the risk?

So that we can all work together to improve the hiring process. Seriously. I could get hit by car because I stopped to pick up some trash on the side of the road. But it's still a decent thing to do.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#240

Post by jldugger » Fri, Feb 07, 2020, 1:14 AM UTC

preommr wrote: post #182

ddelt wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hot take: you could hire someone who did absolutely well in the interview, and they could find a few weeks into the job that they loathe everyone, and go on a social media rampage. What I’m getting at is, there will always be bad apples, or people who react in a way that damages your organization. But not providing useful feedback to people who ask for it simply because one person went crazy is punishing a lot more p…

A company has to hire someone. So they're forced to take the risk. They don't have to provide feedback, so they don't have to take the risk if they don't want to. Don't really think your comparison was fair.

But hopefully they interview more people than they hire.