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No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

blog.interviewing.io

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Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#201

Post by Aeolun »

SubuSS wrote: post #68
plake wrote: post #29

Because giving good feedback is hard work, and candidates won't always take it well (even if they don't sue). If the employer has already decided not to hire you, there's just not that much in it for them. For what it's worth, as an interviewer I'm happy to give feedback in person, at the end of the interview, if the candidate asks for it. It's much easier to do when you're both in the same room, and asking e.g. "is…

I haven't read the article, but it is off-point to say no-one sues. History has no effect on what someone will do tomorrow - exposure is what companies try to limit. The sueing angle kicks in when you do stuff like give feedback for folks who you think will take it well Vs keep it away from folks who give you a bad feeling or whatever. It is all exposure. Almost in all the companies I have been at, there has been a b…

If noone has sued about feedback in the past 10 years, over probably millions of interviews, it’s a fairly safe bet that nobody will sue in the next 10.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#202

Post by Apocryphon »

Kalium wrote: post #183
BurningFrog wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> well, word gets around. Yeah, but that also true if you give good constructive feedback with your rejections. The "word" doesn't have to be bad, you know :)

You're right, but it's also not difficult for genuine, high-quality feedback to be taken poorly. You can tell someone that they're not as good at data structures or database design or scalable systems or whatever core job skill you needed them to be. That can be highly useful, actionable feedback. It can also readily feed into a very different framing. It's rarely difficult for a candidate to decide that whatever cor…

Why not formalize the process and include non-disparagement clauses that applicants must sign to receive feedback? Then risk of retaliation is reduced.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#203

Post by komali2 »

dickjocke wrote: post #173
komali2 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't wait to study up Surely if a rejection was for a reason that a couple weeks of study could "fix," it wasn't worth a rejection, right? Are hirers out there really being THAT picky? I'm going through resumes right now and rejecting people if I think they need a year or more experience under their belt than what they're presenting. If it's because they know react and not vue, that's not reject worthy at all...

Why can't this be on the scale of 3 or 5 years? I'm reminded of the Maya Angelou quote: "I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel." I don't remember 99.9% of what recruiters have said to me, but I do remember the two companies (Hulu and LinkedIn) that made me feel like crap and jerked me around. It was 2 years ago and I'm…

> Why can't it be on the scale of 3 to 5 years

Where I work is an agency, so essentially a collection of already experienced designers, engineers, etc that need to be building quality products pretty much day 1. Any of our time we aren't billing to clients is just coming out of our cut.

It's a somewhat ruthless calculation, but we already skim billed time to do things like give ourselves 20% freetime to work on libre projects, train ourselves on new tech, etc. Some of us use that 20% to mentor bootcamp grads (me) which is the kind of help I want to give to green engineers - I'm a selfish boi and don't wanna lump a billable hour cut on top of that. We absolutely don't have time to be pulling someone in that needs 3 more years before they're engineering at the level we need.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#204

Post by baron816 »

zomglings wrote: post #117
kenhwang wrote: post #6

One time we gave feedback on request and the candidate contested the feedback, then went out on a social media rampage. So yeah, we stopped after that. It only takes one bad candidate to make it not worth the effort.

You have it exactly right. Companies are protecting themselves from more than just legal action - Glassdoor reviews have a huge influence on how candidates view your company (especially true for startups).

I once left a bad review on Glassdoor after a truly awful interview experience for a startup. The next day they called me up and threatened legal action.

Edit: Just for context on the interview—they had me do a take home assignment in Django, which I had never worked in. Was desperate, so I learned Django and completed it in a week. Went onsite and their whole office was a one tiny, dated swelteringly hot room. The interview was mostly around a bunch of basic syntax stuff, and had me implement merge sort. Didn’t hear from them at all for a month so I wrote on Glassdoor about it.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#205

Post by Kalium »

Apocryphon wrote: post #202
Kalium wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but it's also not difficult for genuine, high-quality feedback to be taken poorly. You can tell someone that they're not as good at data structures or database design or scalable systems or whatever core job skill you needed them to be. That can be highly useful, actionable feedback. It can also readily feed into a very different framing. It's rarely difficult for a candidate to decide that whatever cor…

Why not formalize the process and include non-disparagement clauses that applicants must sign to receive feedback? Then risk of retaliation is reduced.

There are definitely options, but it's worth bearing in mind that contracts are for when for things go wrong. Are you willing to sue someone for saying something bad after getting post-interview feedback? Seems unlikely to help with bad PR, but I'm not an expert.

Legal might not be the right tools for this. Some industries (consulting, as mentioned by others) seem to have standardized ways to give feedback.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#206

Post by nkingsy »

jscotto wrote: post #191
nkingsy wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tried and true practice in dating, and it translates well to hiring, which is basically the same thing. Most people, ESPECIALLY people who ask you for feedback, do not want feedback. They want to get in a fight with you. Edit: I don't remember ghosting anyone personally in either setting, but it's happened to me plenty. Getting upset about it just means you're new to the experience.

Honestly as someone who is looking for a junior role this could not be further from the truth. I just want to know how to improve so I can stop being unhappy at my current job and get a new one.

I'd be happy to take a look at some code if you like. noahjkingsley//gmail

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#207

Post by kradroy »

ddelt wrote: post #169
kenhwang wrote: post #6

One time we gave feedback on request and the candidate contested the feedback, then went out on a social media rampage. So yeah, we stopped after that. It only takes one bad candidate to make it not worth the effort.

Hot take: you could hire someone who did absolutely well in the interview, and they could find a few weeks into the job that they loathe everyone, and go on a social media rampage. What I’m getting at is, there will always be bad apples, or people who react in a way that damages your organization. But not providing useful feedback to people who ask for it simply because one person went crazy is punishing a lot more p…

    Hot take: you could hire someone who did absolutely well in the interview, and they could find a few weeks into the job that they loathe everyone, and go on a social media rampage.
Nearly every company has a policy regarding social media usage with regard to company-related content. If the negative comments get back to the company, that individual will likely face consequences. The "no interviewee feedback" is just another part of a communications policy.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#208

Post by Apocryphon »

Kalium wrote: post #205
Apocryphon wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not formalize the process and include non-disparagement clauses that applicants must sign to receive feedback? Then risk of retaliation is reduced.

There are definitely options, but it's worth bearing in mind that contracts are for when for things go wrong. Are you willing to sue someone for saying something bad after getting post-interview feedback? Seems unlikely to help with bad PR, but I'm not an expert. Legal might not be the right tools for this. Some industries (consulting, as mentioned by others) seem to have standardized ways to give feedback.

It would at least deter most people from acting on anger over feedback. Those who aren't dissuaded by the contract would have acted in anger even if they didn't receive feedback.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#209

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

Thriptic wrote: post #176
vosper wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what exactly did these companies gain? They didn't hire you now, but might be able to hire you in the future because you would maybe apply again (assuming you get passed the "we already didn't hire this person" filter)? With all the risk, that doesn't seem like much of a payoff to the company, to me. (Though I am glad you got feedback you considered valuable, and I think it's cool that the companies did that)

They gain the goodwill of a prospective employee who might cycle back and be a great fit later on in their career (and who has more skills then). It's also about what they don't lose, which is not only me but potentially other prospective candidates. Know what happens when someone mentions they are considering applying to a place that never got back to me? I tell them don't apply there, they waste your time / they do…

And providing feedback is very likely to hurt your reputation. One major company did give me feedback, and I've made fun of them endlessly for it - they explained that the manager loved me, I did great on systems design and architecture, but I couldn't pass the hiring committee because I didn't do well enough on tree traversal tricks.

Re: No engineer has ever sued because of constructive post-interview feedback

#210

Post by pmiller2 »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #56
pmiller2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven’t filed any documents, you haven’t sued anyone, either. I find it really hard to believe that every single case of an engineer suing over post-interview feedback has settled out of court, too.

That’s getting a little bit nit-picky over the definition of “sue”. In this context the risk people are talking about is that a candidate will make some sort of legal claim against them. Whether that claim ends up in court really only changes the potential impact of that risk. Especially considering most HR related legal complaints end up with an out of court settlement (even a lot of the frivolous ones), because the…

Using the commonly understood definition of a word is not nitpicking.
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