Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#251

Post by Rury » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 11:34 PM UTC

Frankly, I've thought a lot about narcissism and I'm beginning to think it's a bit nonsensical, as in some ways I think it can be used as a term to demonize others to justify the cognitive dissonance of treating them poorly. Similar to any kind of generalization... you assign a label to dehumanize them.

For example, some commonly associated traits ascribed to narcissism are a desire of power, status, or admiration from others; the the self-perception of being unique, and a lack of empathy for others. Now why would someone psychologically end up fixated on these traits? Well perhaps, they've been treated poorly and are dejected from others. They are on the receiving end of lack of empathy, are downtrodden, and abused. If they had power, status, admiration, or generally were treated well they wouldn't feel like their ego's were so fragile. So they exaggerate their importance to try to gain what they're lacking, and lash out if they feel they are wronged.

So, to me, people with these traits seem to be concerned about what others think of them. Sure the "them", at the end of that last sentence makes it seem they're being self-centered. But read it again; the words "concerned about others" co-exist in that sentence - words that describe altruism. Why would someone be concerned with their appearance? Perhaps they've been treated poorly by others... and are worried they're unacceptable to society... So they focus on themselves.

I'd say don't worry about it much, it's easy to beat yourself up. I know that's not much help, but for me thinking this way helps me realize I'm not perfect nor no-one is and that there are many grey areas in life that are subjective. In all, you might not actually be narcissistic...

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#252

Post by btilly » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 11:41 PM UTC

yters wrote: post #166

btilly wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes. Believe in this thing that you don't believe in so that you can become a better person. Except that believing for that reason is simply telling yourself a lie. And professing faith based on a lie will make you a worse person. And yet this type of argument is often used by those who seek to spread the Gospel. See likewise Pascal's Wager. That said, there is no evidence that I am aware of for Christianity actua…

See the western civilization you live. Largely the product of Christianity. OP can look into Christianity to see if they find it plausible. I am suggesting it is a good place to look, as the premise of Christianity is there is a greater reality than the self.

My understanding of the history is that Christianity took a free ride on a freight train caused by other things that in turn were not helped by Christianity. For example the early history of science shows that science took off exactly where and when conflict between different Christian sects left no religious authority with sufficient power to stop people from exploring dangerous ideas.

And to the tired old argument that our society's cultural values are founded in Christianity, they are not. As a demonstration compare the many, many comments from Jesus against acquiring material wealth with how deeply established Capitalism is in our society. (Mark 10:25 on how hard it is for rich men to get into heaven comes to mind. Note that virtually all Americans are rich by world standards.) Our society, like all others that I know of, cherrypicks from religious texts to find support for what it wants to believe is true, rather than following those texts to the conclusions that are clearly there. (Whether those conclusions are good is a different story.)

In fact most of our most cherished cultural values either predate Christianity (eg the Golden Rule) or postdate the Enlightenment (eg our rejection of slavery). It is hard to point to many that clearly were introduced by the Bible and have become adopted. (Note, just because it is in the Bible does not mean that it was introduced there. Again, see the Golden Rule as an example.)

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#253

Post by Sohcahtoa82 » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 11:41 PM UTC

slumdev wrote: post #86

drinfinity wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Broken heart Broken leg Blindness Losing a child Having a low (or too high) IQ Having severe mental disorder(s)

This is what happens when you run country music through lossy compression.

Needs a "Broken truck" line.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#254

Post by pixelpoet » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 11:47 PM UTC

I don't think something like that is fixable; maybe another way of saying it is, most basic animals are built like this by design - it's a feature, not a bug. We evolved to become the biggest and strongest, and a very effective part of that is "fake it until you make it"; be bold and have confidence! Developing a more global and rational perspective is super expensive and our ape brains already consumed way too much energy until we (just recently) learnt to cook food to save our stomachs the digestive energy. (At the risk of being [rightly] accused of scraping the bottom of the optimism barrel: I actually think we're doing alright given the tools / monkeybrains to hand. Unfortunately you see what happens with populist rule / mob mentality, but on the other hand, Euler, Gauss, Newton, Riemann, von Neumann, Noether, Ramanujan etc suggest that we apes can approach basically godhood with our normal metabolic system.)

Transcending this self-centred existence requires logical and relative consideration. It is ~certain that YOU, the very person reading this right now, are not the smartest or strongest or richest or in the world. So, as a vaguely smart functioning person, you are aware of others who are better than you at various things, and you need to intelligently deal with it.

In any case, we're all going to be a bit nacissistic until we join some kind of posthuman Borg, probably in some Gaussian distribution about a mean same as our heights.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#255

Post by smnplk » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 11:50 PM UTC

mc3 wrote: post #171

bawolff wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the real problems.

And complex ones.

Are you saying all problems are imaginary ?

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#256

Post by jhayward » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 11:51 PM UTC

JonathanMerklin wrote: post #109

ggambetta wrote: post #15

Seeing a therapist might be infinitely better than reading a book, and not just for narcissism. We're all broken in our own wonderful and unique ways. I've been seeing a therapist for 5 years now, and the positive impact this has had in my life and on my general self-awareness can't be overstated. As engineers and tech people we have one tool that has proven incredible useful in our careers: our brilliant rational mi…

Honest question, really trying hard not to word it in a standoffish way: what do you get out of a therapist that can't be obtained from thought or general conversation outside of therapy? I don't think a "brilliant rational mind" is a prerequisite for coming to the conclusion that you're spending money to lock someone in conversation with you - someone that would not associate with you otherwise. To me, the relations…

You are not a rational being. You are a bundle of emotions, patterns, habits, and semi-randomly locked-in sensitivities and responses.

Talking to a therapist does two things: it makes you interact with a human being, not an abstract concept or idea. This uses different areas of your brain, different cognitive and emotional pathways than does reading a book or simply "thinking about it"; and it allows you to receive the benefit of trained expertise in detecting what patterns, triggers, traps, and skills you have or need to have exposure to.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#257

Post by tomnipotent » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 11:52 PM UTC

ItsMattyG wrote: post #247

tomnipotent wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It won't fix something like schizophrenia Your comment is terribly unhelpful. Therapy isn't about "fixing" someone, but to help individuals with issues that negatively affect their life find opportunities to manage those issues. CBT is not something you can start doing by yourself without an external catalyst. I have ADHD, OCD, and bipolar II along with recurring bouts of PTSD from a terribly traumatic childhood. W…

> CBT is not something you can start doing by yourself without an external catalyst. Sure it is. Self-therapy is useful, getting a therapist is useful. Why is everyone shitting on other people's vibe?

> Why is everyone shitting on other people's vibe?

Because people provide horrible advice like this that prevents people from getting the help they need. Stigma is a real thing.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#258

Post by rconti » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 11:52 PM UTC

adityathakkar wrote: post #178

rconti wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An inflated ego is also a great way to never try anything you might fail at.

I'd disagree with that - never trying something you might fail at is cowardice, not overconfidence, and those are two independent attributes.

If you keep trying new things and you're great at all of them, maybe you're just really hot shit and I'm not sure the ego is considered "inflated" or that you're overconfident. Maybe it's just appropriate confidence given your awesomeness.

Those who have overinflated egos and overvalue their egos don't try things they might fail at. Or, I guess, maybe some folks try things, suck at them, and make excuses/write off their failures as someone else's fault.

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#259

Post by Izkata » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 11:54 PM UTC

texasbigdata wrote: post #75

moretai wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are examples of problems you couldn't solve with your mind?

-Job loss -Romantic losses -Self compassion -Self care Conceptually, think about how many times your friends have an issue that seems trivial for you (on the outside) to fix. Surely the same applies to you. Especially if you're high functioning, by definition anything left to work on is relatively outside your awareness and can't be solved from the "inside".

You need blank lines for the pseudo-bullets to not combine together like this.

(Caught my eye quickly scrolling down because they look like java command-line options)

Re: Ask HN: How did you fix your narcissism?

#260

Post by throwawaypa123 » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 11:56 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #189

throwawaypa123 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The change should be his environment and not him. Far easier to change where you are than WHAT you are.

This is a very destructive comment, and I hope that no one is seriously reading this and thinking it's ok and applies to them. The most socially unadjusted people I know often blame everyone else around them except for themselves, when it's clear that they were both acting like jerks and totally unaware the entire time. I have a friend that's literally jobless and in poverty now because he was continuously let go pro…

It is about degrees. I used to be miserable trying to "behave" and realized that I was in the wrong environment. I was not a fit for that company or that culture. Working in tech has made it that I don't need to behave since most of my natural tendencies are acceptable there. How bad would it be if someone said that you have to become something I am not.

I agree that my comments could be harmful if it was the only one, but there needs to be balance in advice.

I assume this person is "successful", may be that's the faulty assumption.