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DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

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Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#41

Post by [deleted] »

syshum wrote: post #35
vkou wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> efficient no, How is it not efficient? Elections Canada figures out how to count ballots in a few hours. 95% of the work of putting on an election is setting up, and running the polling stations. Using an electronic system is not going to make that 95% any easier. The only thing that would make it easier, is purely mail-in ballots, like in Washington State. > and largely one of the reason for low participation rate…

>>How is it not efficient? It is not efficient for the people voting. More than 1 election I simply skipped because I did not want to find my polling place, stand in line, and then vote I want a Polling Place free Voting system

[deleted]

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#42

Post by Swenrekcah »

syshum wrote: post #35
vkou wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> efficient no, How is it not efficient? Elections Canada figures out how to count ballots in a few hours. 95% of the work of putting on an election is setting up, and running the polling stations. Using an electronic system is not going to make that 95% any easier. The only thing that would make it easier, is purely mail-in ballots, like in Washington State. > and largely one of the reason for low participation rate…

>>How is it not efficient? It is not efficient for the people voting. More than 1 election I simply skipped because I did not want to find my polling place, stand in line, and then vote I want a Polling Place free Voting system

There are really easy solutions to this that other countries use, while keeping the safe and simple paper ballots.

They have many polling places, enough that queues aren’t more than a few minutes at the most.

They don’t make the polling places deliberately hard to get to.

They hold elections on a weekend or a public holiday so the flow evens out over the course of the whole day.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#43

Post by ixwt »

b1ur wrote: post #22
geogra4 wrote: post #6

Paper and pencils please.

I'm more of a pen guy, if you want to change my paper vote you better have whiteout and a steady hand

Or they hand you a pen with disappearing ink. You'd have to use your own pen to prevent that. But how can it be trusted by the government that your pen hasn't been replaced?

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#44

Post by lflux »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYVLH1tLIDY They should start with Rand Waltzman's presentation at DEFCON (link above). In sum, USGOV is still totally unprepared for information warfare ops ongoing and intended. About 1/2 through this video the content is the best I've ever watched from DEFCON, period.

Holy shit, that's my college prof from KTH who taught us Intro CS

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#45

Post by ngold »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #37
maximente wrote: post #12

when viewed from a sludge-money lens (a la the F35) electronic voting and election security seem largely working as intended: - we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard - money gets sent to various entities under the guise of tech, security, freedom, etc. (contracts for voting machines, contracts for software, etc.). this basically gives some limited air…

> ...so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard I know someone in the industry who thinks software voting will solve the issues. It’s not ulterior motives; People actually believe it will help.

Nothing beats the relaxation of voting by mail. Secure? Better then most.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#46

Post by morio »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #37
maximente wrote: post #12

when viewed from a sludge-money lens (a la the F35) electronic voting and election security seem largely working as intended: - we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard - money gets sent to various entities under the guise of tech, security, freedom, etc. (contracts for voting machines, contracts for software, etc.). this basically gives some limited air…

> ...so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard I know someone in the industry who thinks software voting will solve the issues. It’s not ulterior motives; People actually believe it will help.

Agreed, I see a lot of "if Estonia can do online voting, why can't we?" When I talk to some of these people, who work in the SV as software engineers, I realize not everyone has a wide ranging context on security and privacy. Not everyone religiously attends or watches DEFCON presentations...

There is also a continuous push to make results available faster, basically instantly. The media is as guilty as everyone else here. Like we can't wait for a few days for results.

Lastly reducing the amount of total paid workers and volunteers in the field to reduce costs likely looks like a shiny object in many managers eyes.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#47

Post by mzs »

maximente wrote: post #12

when viewed from a sludge-money lens (a la the F35) electronic voting and election security seem largely working as intended: - we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard - money gets sent to various entities under the guise of tech, security, freedom, etc. (contracts for voting machines, contracts for software, etc.). this basically gives some limited air…

UK and Canada are parliamentary systems so most ballots are one page. Most of those are just a single question with one selection permitted.

In the US the ballot I get in my polling place depends on where I live and sometimes what party I am registered with. My ballot will likely be different than the next person in line. That ballot is many pages with numerous questions per page. And for about half of the questions I am permitted more than one selection.

Machines are a good aid here for this system. Verifiable paper tallies are good for election security though.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#48

Post by pjc50 »

maximente wrote: post #12

when viewed from a sludge-money lens (a la the F35) electronic voting and election security seem largely working as intended: - we know paper works (Canada/UK) so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard - money gets sent to various entities under the guise of tech, security, freedom, etc. (contracts for voting machines, contracts for software, etc.). this basically gives some limited air…

The additional problem with election security is distinguishing between the parts of the corruption that are local, protected and untouchable; the parts done by foreign actors at the behest of the local untouchables; and the parts done by foreign actors on their own initiative against the local elites.

There's no need to hack the votes themselves if you can just get a list of opposition voters and just cancel their registrations, for example: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/28/georgia-voti...

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#49

Post by CalRobert »

morio wrote: post #46
colejohnson66 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...so there must be an ulterior motive for pushing on tech solution so hard I know someone in the industry who thinks software voting will solve the issues. It’s not ulterior motives; People actually believe it will help.

Agreed, I see a lot of "if Estonia can do online voting, why can't we?" When I talk to some of these people, who work in the SV as software engineers, I realize not everyone has a wide ranging context on security and privacy. Not everyone religiously attends or watches DEFCON presentations... There is also a continuous push to make results available faster, basically instantly. The media is as guilty as everyone else…

If they went to a single DEF CON talk on voting they'd strongly favour paper.

Re: DHS plans urgently needed to address identified challenges before 2020 elections [pdf]

#50

Post by empath75 »

syshum wrote: post #35
vkou wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> efficient no, How is it not efficient? Elections Canada figures out how to count ballots in a few hours. 95% of the work of putting on an election is setting up, and running the polling stations. Using an electronic system is not going to make that 95% any easier. The only thing that would make it easier, is purely mail-in ballots, like in Washington State. > and largely one of the reason for low participation rate…

>>How is it not efficient? It is not efficient for the people voting. More than 1 election I simply skipped because I did not want to find my polling place, stand in line, and then vote I want a Polling Place free Voting system

Move to Washington and mail it in. But to be honest, you have an obligation as a citizen to do whatever you have to do to vote and I’m not too sympathetic to people without a disability saying it’s too hard to get out of the house when I see other people standing outside in the cold and rain for hours to do it.

Take some responsibility for your country.

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