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Children of immigrants have higher rates of upward mobility than US-born

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Re: Children of immigrants have higher rates of upward mobility than US-born

#171

Post by zeku »

rhacker wrote: post #65
bsanr2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that many HNers will probably be embarrased to admit being surprised by is how higher education attainment rates for immigrants don't exclude African immigrants. In fact, black immigrants from Africa and the West Indies have among the highest degree attainment rate of any group. This belies the lower college-and-advanced-degree attainment rate for black Americans as a whole. All of this seems to suggest tha…

Indeed. While you're covering multiple topics, I wanted to touch on the education specifically. I think a huge reason for our problematic education system is lack of competition for teaching jobs. If there's a job at a startup that's willing to pay someone for math at $100k (avg in mixed locations) - $300k (avg in silicon valley) how are we ever going to have excellent math teachers. The people competing for a 50k te…

I find the numbers always thrown around on HN fascinating. In my city junior devs make ~55k on average and teachers are making ~35k on average.

Re: Children of immigrants have higher rates of upward mobility than US-born

#172

Post by JabavuAdams »

bsanr2 wrote: post #165
JabavuAdams wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Systemic racism ... aaaand ... loser gangster culture. Would love to see the numbers on whether it's easier to become a chartered accountant or a rap artist. I'm seeing the other side of this, recently (disadvantaged white people). It's astonishing the loser mentalities and habits that many disadvantaged children learn from their early caregivers and peer group. As middle to upper middle class people, we often…

>aaaand ... loser gangster culture. No. You have parents that are not able to attend to pre-school education, whether it's a time or money issue, or even an education issue themselves. And then you have children, let down by parents who were let down by society, who are ashamed of how far behind they are. The idea that you can further shame people into "shaping up" is farcical. Please stop being part of the problem.

I appreciate what you're trying to do, but do you have skin in the game or personal experience with these issues?

Re: Children of immigrants have higher rates of upward mobility than US-born

#173

Post by manthedudeguy »

jeffdavis wrote: post #50
bsanr2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that many HNers will probably be embarrased to admit being surprised by is how higher education attainment rates for immigrants don't exclude African immigrants. In fact, black immigrants from Africa and the West Indies have among the highest degree attainment rate of any group. This belies the lower college-and-advanced-degree attainment rate for black Americans as a whole. All of this seems to suggest tha…

"...there is something about the American education system - and perhaps our overal culture - that is failing our children..." Perhaps the whole idea that there's a "system" that's responsible for everyone's success is the problem?

Your username makes this comment pretty funny.

And no, I don't think that idea is the problem.

Re: Children of immigrants have higher rates of upward mobility than US-born

#174

Post by tathougies »

watwut wrote: post #162
tathougies wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, easy, I've seen this statement used several times to criticize younger generations because things were harder "back in my day". Except for some very specific times in history, it is almost universally true that the older generation had harder times. Human progress is -- in the grand scheme of things -- a march towards much easier lives.

Those very specific periods are quite often. For huge amount of world population, it is right now.

Huge, but much smaller than before.

Re: Children of immigrants have higher rates of upward mobility than US-born

#175

Post by levythe »

screye wrote: post #106
nostrademons wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You take an initial immigrant who gets in because of the merit categories and then have them bring over all their family members, whose gene pool ends up in the U.S? Whose family values? This article is about upward mobility in the children of immigrants. What traits do children get from their parents? Most people would say it's nature (their genes) and nurture (their upbringing). All of these are widely shared with…

It's hard to argue for nature when the immigrants come from among the most diverse ethnic groups. There is literally no homogeneity among them apart from the fact that their parents weren't American citizens.

I don't believe the assertion was that these genes are ethnogenetic. I find gp's assertion dubious as well, but I think you may have misunderstood it.

Re: Children of immigrants have higher rates of upward mobility than US-born

#176

Post by Impossible »

babesh wrote: post #144
babesh wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually a significant percentage have. The US is 16.7% Hispanic. That is over 50 million people. The population of Mexico is a little over 120 million. I would bet that if there were no barriers to immigration then you would see a significantly higher Hispanic population in the US. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Hispanic_and...

And from the article, over 60% is of Mexican ancestry. So over 30 million versus the population of Mexico at a little over 120 million. Roughly 20% of Mexicans moved to the US.

Using the modern populations of these countries is disingenuous, you need to consider recent historical immigration rates (legal and illegal). This is like saying there are 42 million Black Americans and most Black people have West African roots, so Roughly 20% of Nigeria has moved to the US. As posted below, historically Mexicans have been in the US forever, and the US annexed large parts of Mexico relatively early in its history.

Re: Children of immigrants have higher rates of upward mobility than US-born

#177

Post by burnte »

DiffEq wrote: post #161
burnte wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what it's saying, and I think it's an important message to get our with all of the propaganda against immigrants right now. These are highly motivated people, not lazy slobs like some people paint them.

There is no one type of "immigrant" though either and thus the need for a selection criteria.

Sure there is, all immigrants are people who moved here from other nations. They may have different reasons, times, methods, causes, and there may be different subgroups, etc, but there certainly is a single group of immigrants just like there's a single group of Americans, sheep, and pizzas.

Re: Children of immigrants have higher rates of upward mobility than US-born

#178

Post by toraobo »

acephal wrote: post #140
bsanr2 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that many HNers will probably be embarrased to admit being surprised by is how higher education attainment rates for immigrants don't exclude African immigrants. In fact, black immigrants from Africa and the West Indies have among the highest degree attainment rate of any group. This belies the lower college-and-advanced-degree attainment rate for black Americans as a whole. All of this seems to suggest tha…

Black SWE here, grew up on the west side of Chicago, I don't think most white people understand how bad the literacy situation is. I could read competently before I even got to school and I went to grammar school in the 90s. First day of first grade, I found out no one could competently read a sentence. In fact, whole school (which has closed) was on this remedial education program called Advanced Directives or somet…

> First day of first grade, I found out no one could competently read a sentence.

Isn't the standard expectation that children enter first-grade completely illiterate? I remember learning how to read and write letters one per lesson in first grade.

I'd guess that maybe 5% are taught to read by parents?

Re: Children of immigrants have higher rates of upward mobility than US-born

#180

Post by yardie »

sjg007 wrote: post #98
rhacker wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. While you're covering multiple topics, I wanted to touch on the education specifically. I think a huge reason for our problematic education system is lack of competition for teaching jobs. If there's a job at a startup that's willing to pay someone for math at $100k (avg in mixed locations) - $300k (avg in silicon valley) how are we ever going to have excellent math teachers. The people competing for a 50k te…

>If there's a job at a startup that's willing to pay someone for math at $100k (avg in mixed locations) - $300k (avg in silicon valley) how are we ever going to have excellent math teachers. The people competing for a 50k teaching job are not even qualified to have that 100-300k job. This a false dichotomy. For one, teachers in SV can make 100k. Second the skills required to be an effective teacher are not the same a…

The classic school system was designed for the industrial era. We train you like a factory because you're going to work in a factory making 1 cog/minute. Now, those factory workers have been replaced with automation, simple AI, and robots. And the schools are woefully unprepared for it.
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