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Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

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Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#261

Post by BoorishBears »

zentiggr wrote: post #165
BoorishBears wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what, if I'm going to be downvoted for an opinion, it should at least earn it: Too bad open offices are here to stay, if you were worth it you could get an office, maybe invest in some good headphones :)

You seem to be in a very small minority, then... I have to agree with most of the opinions I've read through the thread, open floor plans are a total productivity killer, way too many distraction sources and most of what communication there is, is irrelevant because no team stayed separate or respected anyone else's audio boundaries. Cubes are still rather poor, but at least I odn't have to see what my neighbor's doi…

From my reply below:

I hear a conversation relevant to me and jump in, a conversation stops being relevant I jump out That simple interaction has added tons of value for me over the last few years of open offices. We have a very simple way to indicate you don't want to be interrupted, headphones or a flag There's also tons of huddle rooms you can go into if you want to hunker down in quiet - Everyone is different, some people feel switching from keyboard to mouse is a huge productivity drain and invest a lot in avoiding that transition Maybe I'm just fortunate but it's never been an issue for me, people are pretty respectful of their coworkers where I've worked

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#262

Post by usrusr »

MandieD wrote: post #226
ergothus wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my offices, after vocal complaints about the open office plan, did a quick survey. Roughly 50% were fine with the open office plan. (this office was mainly devs, HR, recruiting, and data scientists) As someone that is drained by social interactions (I _like_ them, but afterwards I'm drained, not energized), that is easily distracted by movement, and who can't hear conversations in the background without instin…

Trying to tune out the background conversations is especially hard when most of them are in a language you speak usefully, but not fluently.

Works the same in the reverse case: I'm a native speaker in the office language, but many of my coworkers are not. One of them is impossible for me to tune out, only because of a difficult accent (his grammar etc are actually better than the ones that I can tune out). It feels as if a mental background process for flagging keywords or something like that keeps bailing out with an exception, "sorry consciousness, you take over". I discovered that I can limit the effect with positive framing as a naturally occurring experiment that grants an interesting window into the inner workings of the mind. At least this way, the distraction does not get compounded by annoyance (which also would be quite unfair). I can only imagine how bad it must be when everyone around you causes that kind of escalation to consciousness.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#263

Post by Izkata »

b1ur wrote: post #144
0xffff2 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never understand this line of reasoning. I have my own office. It's right next to most of my team's offices. My door is open 90% of the time. If someone wants to chat spontaneously, I don't think walking 15 feet is going to stop them.

You'd be surprised, it doesn't seem like a lot but there is a big difference between having to stand up and walk over and leaning over, or kicking your chair over.

Yeah, a lot of our random chats start because of a stray thought said aloud, not even to anyone. If someone nearby needs a break, they pick up on it.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#264

Post by plapetomain »

dehrmann wrote: post #62
jackfoxy wrote: post #34

35+ years in the IT workforce here. Yep, dumbest idea ever. The vast majority of my office time was in cubicles, which are pretty good. Usually enough privacy to get things done. I did have a glassed-in private office for about a year at one company. That was productivity heaven. In retrospect I was dumb to leave that company when I did, but they started demolishing offices for cubicles about 2 years later. It is all…

> The vast majority of my office time was in cubicles, which are pretty good. I remember watching "Office Space" circa 2000 and it looked pretty soul crushing, and working in pre-FAANG big tech around 2006, it felt very mechanical and depressing. I get your gripes, but I think some is also rosy retrospection.

No it’s not.

The beauty of the cubicle was in its practical functionality. If you’re working effectice and productively you don’t really notice the plainness of your surroundings.

A private space, but you could still see out the window.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#265

Post by moron4hire »

BoorishBears wrote: post #236
noxToken wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a huge part of craft is communication, and open offices are great for that. Can you explain this to me? How does an open office lead to better communication than cubes or partitioned group work spaces? I'm in an open office. A lot of communication is done via email and IM. When someone comes to my desk to ask a question, collaborate, or just say hey, I typically don't get up. If a group stops by, we'll usually move…

I hear a conversation relevant to me and jump in, a conversation stops being relevant I jump out That simple interaction has added tons of value for me over the last few years of open offices. We have a very simple way to indicate you don't want to be interrupted, headphones or a flag There's also tons of huddle rooms you can go into if you want to hunker down in quiet - Everyone is different, some people feel switch…

And I have a way of indicating I do want to be interrupted: I leave my door open, I walk around the floor and look for other open doors, I move to the break room and have lunch with everyone else. It would bug the shit out of me if someone interjected themselves into a conversation I was having with someone else in my office.

That's the problem with open-floor-plan. It presumes "my need to know what you're saying/doing is more important than you even getting the opportunity to consent to me knowing."

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#266

Post by bjornjajajaja »

kylec wrote: post #224
Enginerrrd wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the opposite experience. I had a job where half the floor plan was cubicals and half was open plan where you had groups of 2-3 people in a sort of cove. I started in the cubicle section. And I hated my job. Every day felt draining to the soul. I felt invisible and isolated and I hated it. I was making no progress in the organization. I'd constantly find excuses to leave my desk just to see another human face…

Extroverts: I feel invisible and isolated and I hate it. Introverts: I feel invisible and isolated and I love it.

No one is 100% polarized introvert or extrovert though. I’m willing to be t silent environments are more conducive to productivity.

Whomever designs those open spaces watches way too much Fixer Upper. That or not enough — the open spaces are communal but there are ALSO spaces for people to retreat into their space.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#267

Post by keenmaster »

mumblemumble wrote: post #227
ergothus wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my offices, after vocal complaints about the open office plan, did a quick survey. Roughly 50% were fine with the open office plan. (this office was mainly devs, HR, recruiting, and data scientists) As someone that is drained by social interactions (I _like_ them, but afterwards I'm drained, not energized), that is easily distracted by movement, and who can't hear conversations in the background without instin…

Can't find it anymore, but I could swear there was a study that recently hit the HN front page that found that everyone's productivity objectively takes a hit in a distracting environment. But, subjectively, extraverts perceive themselves as being more productive, while introverts don't.

This. Extroverts are likelier to choose the survey response that reinforces their identity. If you’re a social person, then “I love open office plans, they totally make me more productive” is the pro-social answer.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#268

Post by beart »

mumblemumble wrote: post #216
beart wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason you can't hang out in them is because there are never enough rooms... which is really the root of the problem.

Yep. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turns out that the square footage you need for an open plan office plus a sufficient amount of meeting space ends up being greater than the square footage you need for a more traditional style of office. The last open plan office I worked at was probably 1/3 meeting spaces, and it still didn't feel like enough.

Yes - this is because cubes double as offices for small meetings. For every cube you remove, you also remove a 2 or 3 person office.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#269

Post by moron4hire »

noxToken wrote: post #225
BoorishBears wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what, if I'm going to be downvoted for an opinion, it should at least earn it: Too bad open offices are here to stay, if you were worth it you could get an office, maybe invest in some good headphones :)

>a huge part of craft is communication, and open offices are great for that. Can you explain this to me? How does an open office lead to better communication than cubes or partitioned group work spaces? I'm in an open office. A lot of communication is done via email and IM. When someone comes to my desk to ask a question, collaborate, or just say hey, I typically don't get up. If a group stops by, we'll usually move…

> How does an open office lead to better communication than cubes or partitioned group work spaces?

It doesn't make sense because that's not the reason open-floor-plan exists. The reason is 100% cost-savings. "Communication" is just a post-hoc rationalization, created by management, parroted by employees too boorish to learn how to communicate politely and effectively.

Re: Open-plan offices decrease face-to-face collaboration: study

#270

Post by Izkata »

praptak wrote: post #69
LanceH wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you're joking about Agile, but the previous holy path was waterfall, which was a hideously expensive way to get to failure.

Except that Waterfall was never really advocated: https://davesquared.net/2008/01/contentious-myth-of-waterfal... It was conceived as a straw man which was being dissed so vigorously that people started believing it was real.

Waterfall on a per-feature basis is how we did things about a decade ago. It may be rare, but it's not a strawman.
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