When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’ • Hacker News Board

Re: When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’

#31

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

bcrosby95 wrote: post #6

I learned long ago never to trust dealerships to do what they say they will, unless I see them do it. When I traded in a car, among other things I signed was a release of liability for the DMV. They claimed they would submit it. They never did. 3 months later the DMV called asking about the lack of insurance for the car. I told them what happened, and they said its common for dealerships to never send in this paperwo…

I learned long ago never to trust dealerships

I traded in a car in Houston and the employees of the dealership (an actual big-name dealership, not some guy selling cars on his lawn) took it on joyrides for a week blowing through tolls.

I found out when I got a letter in the mail from the Harris County Toll Road Authority with a bill and photos of my old car zipping through the barriers.

I called HCTRA, and they were super nice about it, cancelled the fees, and said it happens all the time.

Re: When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’

#32

Post by kylec » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

river99 wrote: post #3

First thing I do in any rental car is turn off any remote tracking, mobile apps, clear out bluetooth and turn off wifi if equipped.

I once turned off remote tracking on a Turo I rented. Within a few minutes I got a text from the owner asking me to turn it back on, pointing out it was part of the agreement for renting the car. I did, but it did make me wonder just how closely I was being watched.

Re: When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’

#33

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 6:18 PM UTC

river99 wrote: post #3

First thing I do in any rental car is turn off any remote tracking, mobile apps, clear out bluetooth and turn off wifi if equipped.

First thing I do in any rental car is turn off any remote tracking, mobile apps, clear out bluetooth and turn off wifi if equipped.

The first thing I do when I rent a car is adjust the mirrors and the seat, and then get out of the airport as quickly as I can.

I might think about resetting stuff when I get to the hotel, but if I'm renting a car I have better things to do with my life.

I doubt that even 1% of the people in the world reset anything in a rental car. Including people on HN who state that they do. This is why pressure should be put on the rental companies to do this as part of the check-in process.

Re: When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’

#34

Post by reaperducer » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 6:19 PM UTC

ReptileMan wrote: post #26

_sbrk wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While always good to turn non-essential features off, this doesn't mean that you can't be tracked. Many vehicles, even if non-rental, now come standard with cellular voice/data connections. GM pioneered this with OnStar in the mid-90s[1], and other manufacturers soon followed. Combined with the "black box" recording of _every_ sensor in your car, there can be some pretty damning evidence against the driver in the eve…

Can't you just cut the antenna? Or just improvise a Faraday cage around it.

Good luck finding it. And then, good luck getting to it.

Re: When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’

#35

Post by lotsofpulp » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 6:21 PM UTC

Johnny555 wrote: post #7

I always do an infotainment system reset when I rent a car -- both when I start using the car, and just before I return it. I don't know what apps or other data other people synced, and I don't want anything I synced to be available to the next person. I'd be doubly sure to reset the car at the end of a lease.

I'll just never use anything other than my phone or CarPlay.

Re: When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’

#36

Post by cydonian_monk » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 6:24 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #28

speedgoose wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you start a ICE vehicle remotely? I thought it was mostly a EV thing, some people have aftermarket kits.

Can you start a ICE vehicle remotely? With a keyfob for decades, and with an app for years. It's virtually standard equipment in certain states, along with plug-in engine block heaters. I thought it was mostly a EV thing A guy at work likes to start his massive Ford Raptor with his phone at the end of the day and set off the alarms of the cars he's parked between.

Do we work together? (I'm assuming not.) Some guy where I work does the same thing, same truck. Usually he's still thousands of feet away when he starts it too, maybe even still in the office.

Or maybe it's just a Houston thing.

Re: When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’

#37

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 6:25 PM UTC

LinuxBender wrote: post #19

nkrisc wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On many (all?) modern cars it's also visible at the bottom of driver's side of the windshield. A car's VIN is public information.

I have a small piece of black paper over mine. I am happy to let a law enforcement officer view it if they ask.

[deleted]

Re: When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’

#38

Post by gumby » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #2

Yikes. This is a serious safety issue. Imagine if this wasn’t an EV, and someone started a car while in the new owner’s garage.

Fortunately it’s almost impossible to kill yourself by running the car in the garage any more.

Re: When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’

#39

Post by csours » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 6:28 PM UTC

tyho wrote: post #13

BMW is also massively insecure. My "secret token" I had to enter on my phone to link it with the car was the VIN number. That number is physically stamped into the engine block and chassis so obviously cannot be changed, even after I sell the car. I also suspect these numbers are sequential. Till this car is scrapped I will be able to locate it, turn on the AC, unlock the doors etc.

It's not strictly sequential, but it is easily guessed if not sequential. The first portion is manufacturer's information, and then the last 6 are a serial number of final assembly (generally speaking)

VIN Card [big pdf]: https://www.genuinegmparts.com/src/pdf/resources/1960-2020_V...

Re: When Your Used Car Is a Little Too ‘Mobile’

#40

Post by ng7j5d9 » Thu, Feb 06, 2020, 6:29 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #29

ng7j5d9 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would manufacturers know when cars change hands? Sure, in the example in the article, it was a lease that was turned in to a Ford dealer. But I've sold cars by handing my keys and a title to an individual who handed me money. The manufacturer of the car was not involved in the transaction.

How would manufacturers know when cars change hands? The same way that every single marketing company, bank, finance and insurance company does. It's public information.

That might be a good 90% solution - car registrations are public records, which tons of companies harvest, which is why you get those annoying extended warranty junk mailers, etc.

Not all cars get registered though - some are chopped for parts (in which case that infotainment system might live on in another car), some are shipped internationally to be re-sold elsewhere, etc.

And there could be a lot of lag - some cars languish on dealer lots, get auctioned, languish on another lot, get auctioned again, etc. Or a dealer might like your car and slap dealer tags on it and keep it essentially as his personal vehicle for a while without registering it.

Lots of little opportunities for data to leak or remote functionality to be abused. There ought to be a complete, no-joke, absolutely reset everything in the car (and expire any remote access tokens) option in the car itself, that either a buyer or seller can easily invoke.