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China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

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Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#91

Post by raxxorrax »

cjslep wrote: post #59
raxxorrax wrote: post #49

You can only lock down a city in a dictatorship. So I certainly would not approve of this behavior. Additionally any speculation about the effectiveness of the quarantine is futile in my opinion.

What? US state and federal emergency responders have plans and tools for locking down a city, too.

I seriously doubt a quarantine on that scale would be effective and accepted by citizens in cases like this. If they did it may be the last time they had these privileges.

They can lock down some roads or a building and maybe the air space, but anything on a larger scale is unrealistic. If someone did this in a western democracy, you can be sure those responsible would be on their last term after the initial hysteria waned.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#92

Post by me_me_me »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #83
apatters wrote: post #20

Just dropping a link here, anyone who is concerned about the coronavirus and has opinions about it should imo read the daily situation reports from the WHO: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2... In 5 minutes a day you will have a better informed perspective than what any news sites provide, my own alarm has lessened considerably after reading these.

The WHO is captured by China. You're not going to get any reports from doctors who have challenged the CCP narrative there.

When I read who's statements like: do not close boarders to china because it will hurt business, I do start to wonder.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#93

Post by tim333 »

taneq wrote: post #44
apatters wrote: post #20

Just dropping a link here, anyone who is concerned about the coronavirus and has opinions about it should imo read the daily situation reports from the WHO: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2... In 5 minutes a day you will have a better informed perspective than what any news sites provide, my own alarm has lessened considerably after reading these.

I just ran across this link ( https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3871594 ) suggesting that the official numbers coming out of China may be significantly understated. I'm not familiar with the site, though - are they a reliable news source? Not sure how much credence to give it.

I don't know about those numbers but I think deaths may be considerably understated due to them only counting people who have been properly tested for coronavirus, found to have it and then died but there are probably many others who have died without being able to get a test such as the grandmother mentioned in the article. It's a bit worrying there are no figures for that - the local officials must have an idea how many extra bodies are turning up at crematoria and the like but it doesn't seem to be public.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#94

Post by lazylizard »

hurrdurr2 wrote: post #56
sliken wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They new about it for weeks, 5M people left Wuhan, and then they started the quarantine. You think that should be praised?

It's so easy to simply arm chair general this kind of event isn't it? Right now most of China is locked down... look at it this way, people are genuinely suffering and dying over there in droves and not so much over here. I can at least be appreciative of their sacrifice.

And i imagine nobody wanted to tell everyone not to come home for lunar new year...

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#95

Post by aaron695 »

> China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

Bullshit.

The world would have been like exactly like Hubei, and Hubei no different if they didn't lock it down.

There was no "Sacrifices"

Putting in curfew reduced deaths if anything, they also added doctors and built hospitals.

If the 'sacrifice' is economic because of curfews, then fair enough, but they do not have deaths or illness worse because of the lock down.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#96

Post by cjslep »

raxxorrax wrote: post #91
cjslep wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? US state and federal emergency responders have plans and tools for locking down a city, too.

I seriously doubt a quarantine on that scale would be effective and accepted by citizens in cases like this. If they did it may be the last time they had these privileges. They can lock down some roads or a building and maybe the air space, but anything on a larger scale is unrealistic. If someone did this in a western democracy, you can be sure those responsible would be on their last term after the initial hysteria…

I think you're copy-pasting China's literal response into some hypothetical other culture that isn't being clearly explained, which isn't useful for those of us that can't read your mind.

Concretely, the US CDC for example prefers setting up physically separate internment camps and moving infected populations there for quarantine. And they can easily get the backing of federal military resources or, in the case of a state governor declaring a state of emergency, the state's National Guard to enforce this. It could get ugly, but only for a few zealots. Modern history (20th century til now) shows that a majority of Americans are generally willing to give up civil liberties in emergencies that relate to "national security" or "think of the children" causes.

Edit: And of course curfew laws can be directed by a state government during a state of emergency, or federally during a state of emergency from the Public Health Service Act, and enforced by military forces.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#97

Post by 9nGQluzmnq3M »

BiasRegularizer wrote: post #78
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a single "they". Yes, Wuhan/Hubei provincial authorities did the usual Chinese thing of covering up bad news so the Eye of Sauron over in Beijing wouldn't hear about it, and there's a great/depressing read about why over at [1] (TL;DR: big Communist Party summit). But once Xi/Sauron did catch on, their response -- total lockdown, building new hospitals, etc -- was both draconian and massive on a scale unimag…

I mean, if one is being reckless with fire and accidentally burned their own house down, but they managed to put it out before spreading to the neighbors. Can people really hail that person as a hero?

Where in my response am I hailing anybody as a hero?

My main point is that HN (including the original poster) seems to assume that the CCP is some all-seeing, perfectly coordinated entity, when it's actually 100 million people (!) and even party apparatchiks have wildly differing agendas and levels of competence.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#98

Post by DarthGhandi »

apatters wrote: post #81
DarthGhandi wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real terrifying thing is how many people will ignore international expert consensus to push their own worldview narratives. China is bad, everyone else is good. Anything more complicated than that is essentially discarded. I think they've doing a good job. The world health organisation does. What's the actual problem here other than the usual China flamewars?

I haven't really dug into them but there are criticisms that the Chinese government ignored the situation in the early stages and suppressed information about it. Which sounds like typical negatives of an authoritarian government that hinders free expression and isn't democratically accountable. Perfectly valid to criticize that. Now that they're engaged, the WHO is saying they're responding pretty well.

> I haven't really dug into

An international collective of doctors and scientists who advise the World Health Organisation said this isn't a these you currently, why exactly do you have any reason to doubt them?

Only have to look at the other response here to see how certain types with absolutely no concern for the truth want to dominate this debate, it's just another opportunity for them, nothing else.

The WHO has been previously criticised for only declaring emergencies when it involves America or the holiday season. There's published papers on the matter saying so.

You can't please all the people with this stuff but the onus is on anyone claiming why this body made up of international experts all in competition with each other suddenly decided to collectively conspire in some sort of bizarre attempt to hide the truth?

The scientists advising WHO saying this stuff have far more to lose than the commentators here, people shouldn't lose sight of that very salient fact.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#99

Post by evidencebased »

MaxfordAndSons wrote: post #63
dehrmann wrote: post #15

> Two new hospitals, with 2,600 beds in total, were completed in 10 days , built by more than 2,000 migrant workers China.

Per another HN thread on that, they're really not hospitals so much as warehouses with beds in them. Not that they necessarily need fully equipped hospital facilities for the purpose of housing and treating the infected, but it's still a mischaracterization to call them hospitals.

There are plenty of videos on Youtube showing that they are in fact not just warehouses with beds. What would they need to contain to qualify as hospitals in your opinion?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDIcWkjCKIg

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#100

Post by evidencebased »

sliken wrote: post #40
hurrdurr2 wrote: post #36

The amount of virulent (pun intended) hatred of the Chinese government really shows here. Can't say it's not well deserved but you can at least give them some credit for the quarantine.

They new about it for weeks, 5M people left Wuhan, and then they started the quarantine. You think that should be praised?

Compared to the US response to H1N1 in 2009, a resounding YES!

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/somethings-right-here-folks-l...

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