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China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

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Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#81

Post by apatters »

DarthGhandi wrote: post #67
apatters wrote: post #20

Just dropping a link here, anyone who is concerned about the coronavirus and has opinions about it should imo read the daily situation reports from the WHO: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2... In 5 minutes a day you will have a better informed perspective than what any news sites provide, my own alarm has lessened considerably after reading these.

The real terrifying thing is how many people will ignore international expert consensus to push their own worldview narratives. China is bad, everyone else is good. Anything more complicated than that is essentially discarded. I think they've doing a good job. The world health organisation does. What's the actual problem here other than the usual China flamewars?

I haven't really dug into them but there are criticisms that the Chinese government ignored the situation in the early stages and suppressed information about it. Which sounds like typical negatives of an authoritarian government that hinders free expression and isn't democratically accountable. Perfectly valid to criticize that.

Now that they're engaged, the WHO is saying they're responding pretty well.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#82

Post by unityByFreedom »

apatters wrote: post #81
DarthGhandi wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real terrifying thing is how many people will ignore international expert consensus to push their own worldview narratives. China is bad, everyone else is good. Anything more complicated than that is essentially discarded. I think they've doing a good job. The world health organisation does. What's the actual problem here other than the usual China flamewars?

I haven't really dug into them but there are criticisms that the Chinese government ignored the situation in the early stages and suppressed information about it. Which sounds like typical negatives of an authoritarian government that hinders free expression and isn't democratically accountable. Perfectly valid to criticize that. Now that they're engaged, the WHO is saying they're responding pretty well.

> the WHO is saying they're responding pretty well.

The WHO is captured by China.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#83

Post by unityByFreedom »

apatters wrote: post #20

Just dropping a link here, anyone who is concerned about the coronavirus and has opinions about it should imo read the daily situation reports from the WHO: https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2... In 5 minutes a day you will have a better informed perspective than what any news sites provide, my own alarm has lessened considerably after reading these.

The WHO is captured by China. You're not going to get any reports from doctors who have challenged the CCP narrative there.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#84

Post by BiasRegularizer »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #75
ourlordcaffeine wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the part when they arrested doctors who reported the virus because they didn't want to deal with the virus during a local government meeting and banquet?

Is it confirmed? I see just some YouTube videos; that + the description upthread triggers my conspiracy theory alarm.

Here is the news from Jan 1 in Chinese.

https://www.guancha.cn/politics/2020_01_01_530191.shtml?s=zw...

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#85

Post by unityByFreedom »

paganel wrote: post #37
droithomme wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is yet another reason why nothing the WHO proclaims can possibly be taken seriously by any sane, rational, or informed person.

Some people still do believe them for what they have to say on this, for whatever reason. When you’ve got your quasi-ally (Russia) closing the 2000 km land border you know something is not right (especially as Russia is not known for caring that much for its citizens), but maybe the WHO officials know better from half a world away. On top of that the actual videos that come out of Wuhan are really heart-breaking.

I imagine the only people who take the WHO, aka China, at their word are paid to comment. China has no free press, arrested doctors who warned of this pandemic, and the WHO is a political tool for the CCP. This whole situation comes from a lack of sharing information which is right in their wheelhouse.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#86

Post by tim333 »

AlbertoGP wrote: post #51
mucholove wrote: post #17

Sacrifice my ass. Their incompetence led to a province and its people being hung out to dry. They let this problem get out of hand—and now the people there suffer. How? They ignored the doctors who attempted to report the problem on New Year’s day. They (the CCP) take no precautionary measures until their political regime is threatened. So many things done wrong—including maintaining wet market controls up a few year…

For those interested in knowing more about this, from people that have lived in China for a long time, had families there, and have daily contact with others that still live there, I recommend these videos: “Coronavirus: the lies and the truths” (29th of January) “Let’s look at a timeline of what’s happened to see how slowly it has been dealt with, and how the information was actively suppressed.” https://www.youtube…

Todays FT also has a good article "Coronavirus: the cost of China’s public health cover-up" https://www.ft.com/content/fa83463a-4737-11ea-aeb3-955839e06...

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#87

Post by BiasRegularizer »

AlbertoGP wrote: post #51
mucholove wrote: post #17

Sacrifice my ass. Their incompetence led to a province and its people being hung out to dry. They let this problem get out of hand—and now the people there suffer. How? They ignored the doctors who attempted to report the problem on New Year’s day. They (the CCP) take no precautionary measures until their political regime is threatened. So many things done wrong—including maintaining wet market controls up a few year…

For those interested in knowing more about this, from people that have lived in China for a long time, had families there, and have daily contact with others that still live there, I recommend these videos: “Coronavirus: the lies and the truths” (29th of January) “Let’s look at a timeline of what’s happened to see how slowly it has been dealt with, and how the information was actively suppressed.” https://www.youtube…

Here's the actual news from Jan 1 reporting on the 8 "rumor spreaders". They kept emphasizing that there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission. It's pathetic to look at now. (sorry the article is in Chinese)

https://www.guancha.cn/politics/2020_01_01_530191.shtml?s=zw...

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#88

Post by tim333 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #75
ourlordcaffeine wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you miss the part when they arrested doctors who reported the virus because they didn't want to deal with the virus during a local government meeting and banquet?

Is it confirmed? I see just some YouTube videos; that + the description upthread triggers my conspiracy theory alarm.

The FT article has

>Piecing together the events in Wuhan shows that for at least three weeks before the banquet, city authorities had been informed about the virus spreading in their midst but issued orders to suppress the news. (https://www.ft.com/content/fa83463a-4737-11ea-aeb3-955839e06... linked above)

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#89

Post by unityByFreedom »

BiasRegularizer wrote: post #84
TeMPOraL wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it confirmed? I see just some YouTube videos; that + the description upthread triggers my conspiracy theory alarm.

Here is the news from Jan 1 in Chinese. https://www.guancha.cn/politics/2020_01_01_530191.shtml?s=zw...

Reading the translation, this sounds like what police would say in a parody, yet this is real. Thank you for sharing it and I hope your family and we all make it through this in good health.

Re: China Sacrifices a Province to Save the World From Coronavirus

#90

Post by tim333 »

canada_dry wrote: post #21

When the dust settles from this event I suspect one positive will be that China will throw technology at the problem of more rapidly detecting viral outbreaks and more quickly locking down the affected areas.

And maybe refrain from arresting doctors reporting the problem?
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