Live data from Hacker News

What's SAP?

retool.com

561–570 of 622 posts

Re: What's SAP?

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ERPNext (GPL V3, https://github.com/frappe/erpnext ) is being deployed by many large companies as we speak. India's largest Stock Broker Zerodha ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B6nfq1UR3Y ) and biggest Listed Company ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnoWwSBDQlI ) are actively using ERPNext. ERPNext is not open core like Odoo. Disclaimer: I am the founder of ERPNext

What part of ERPNext is GPL'd, if not the core?

All of it.

I think rushabh's point was that the Odoo model is an open source core with closed source paid components, whereas ERPNext is fully GPL'd.

ERPNext monetize via a SaaS model, but you are free to self-host.

Re: What's SAP?

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correct answer here is "it depends". SAP isn't (just) a giant pile of steaming data model mess because of the thousands of people involved building that software, but really because it can model every tax case in every country in the world. Thought you had a great model for your sales tax that covered US and the EU? Well, enter Brazil and think again, with four slightly different taxes, some of which are applied…

> configuring SAP to do what you want it to do is often on par with writing your own system from scratch. Hyperbole. A lot of working with an ERP is developing middleware or custom modules that implement business-specific logic on top of an existing API and schema. It's like saying building a Facebook App is equivalent to rebuilding the entire Facebook Platform. > So we've dared to build our own multinational and ful…

And for those who wonder how hard can it be to understand those accounting standards, this is what a typical accounting standard book looks like:

https://www.pbookshop.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/imag...

This thing will definitely hurt your foot if you drop it.

Re: What's SAP?

#563
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny - I spend years as an SAP ABAP developer and the very day I start my new position apart from SAP, it's on the front page of HN. ABAP will always hold a special, quirky little place in my heart. It's very powerful, but also totally frustrating. The language is a COBOL-like language made by Germans with a keyword graveyard as big as Berlin. The ABAP community (in my experience, online and offline) is totally…

No, you got code clarity wrong. Code clarity in ABAP means using System Hungarian Notation and it baffles me that almost every ABAP programmer I talk to think it's not redudant to use a command such as READ TABLE on a variable called GT_VBAK(for non-abapers, G for global variable, T for table). The only advantage that I see is that for the most part, every program will look almost the same regarding standard SAP tabl…

FYI, this: https://github.com/SAP/styleguides/blob/master/clean-abap/Cl... exists and is slowly being adopted for new code. But everything takes time.

Re: What's SAP?

#565
post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understood GP perfectly. What I'm saying is that the future need for a different business process does not necessarily outweigh the benefit of standardizing on something else today, just like a USB-C future does not invalidate the original decision of standardizing on USB-C.

Sure. But let's examine the question in this light - Today a new CEO was hired in a new company, she is smart AND has multi-millions to spend on an ERP, which she considers absolute must for smooth running of company operations. Now since she is smart, she is aware of SAP's reputation - i.e., SAP has absolutely nailed down today's optimal business processes (never mind those are actually decades old practices), howev…

> (Ex. manufacturing moving back to home from China, and maybe lights out manufacturing).

Badly chosen example, though. Looks like a case which can be handled through configuration alone in SAP ;-) In general, automated physical processes of all kinds usually can easily be automated in software, too. Problems are often because in most companies, especially in procurement and production prioritization, lots of of manual, ad hoc decision making is at work without formalized processes.

The actual problems with ERPs are usually more a "devil in the details" thing.

To give a real life example where people run into problems with standard ERPs: (it is pretty boring actually, but boring stuff like that can make or break a company)

I for example once had a customer running SAP. Hope I still get all the details right, it was a while ago. Customer was mostly a home decor trading company which sold to chains. It manufactured parts of its products in a subsidiary in another country and also bought various products in China. I was drawn into the project to "translate" between the company's management and their SAP consultant/developer, as there were, uh, problems there.

Problems started when, after a takeover of the company, they wanted to move to a more just-in-time process for their own manufacturing to reduce warehouse sizes while at the same time their eager sales team committed for some large customers to delivery times which were impossible to fulfill if the ordered product is lying somewhere for more than a day, so they had the problem that they had like 5000 different products, were not allowed to stock them anymore, but had to deliver orders after 7 days while the product was "on the street" for at least 4 and half of these days.

Basically that meant, if an order was somewhere stuck in the process for over half a day after they accepted it, they were fucked and had to pay damages to the customer.

So, task was to tighten the schedules so everything goes smoothly, while at the same time manufacturing capacities where limited, the physical process itself also had limitations (like, even if a customer ordered 1 product of a certain kind, at least 8 of that kind had to be produced, so sometimes it was a good choice to produce something a day too early and stock it for a day to optimally use the production capacities), so it was important that an order was denied right at the start and that the estimates if it can be fulfilled at all were correct from the beginning.

Now, SAP has mechanisms for all of this. Just not the way the company needed (at least not with the ERP alone. Additional components, like SAP APO, might have improved this, but those were not licensed and implemented). Basically, there were two types of sales orders in the system, both did about 80% of what the company needed, you could either produce for stock and sell from stock like they used do when they still had their larger warehouse, but this caused problems as manufactured product sometimes was not packed optimally, so stuff had to be taken apart and repacked for final delivery (because from the manufacturing plants point of view, only an order for e.g. 50 units of product X came in for that way), or express orders came in for identical goods and because not enough could be produced in time, the less important customer got the delivery when both where overpromised.

Alternatively, as would have been the better choice, they could have used make-to-order production in the manufacturing plant and directly associate sales orders and manufacturing orders. This would have been the natural way to do it, but there were "reasons", again routed in the way labor was organized at that plant, that this could not be done.

Oh, and of course, even after solving the production orders, there was still the problem that the sales orders also contained trading goods from China, so that also had to be integrated into the final delivery to the customer at an optimal point in time.

So the company basically needed a custom cross of both methods, which the ERP naturally did and could not support, as the special circumstances could never have been foreseen (Actually, to this day, I would say this was a typical case of politics and company inertia at work. The labor processes actually would better have been reorganized in a way to make a standard process work. I warned the customer, the SAP consultancy warned the customer, but "nothing can be done about this").

So this was unfortunately the time where we had to heavily make changes to the system - custom reports for availability planning, some custom user exits to modify the production start times when orders where transferred between sales and production, lots of small detail stuff like that to make the process go flawlessly at least in software.

The software project actually was successful, mainly because the SAP consultancy was not as bad as my customer believed, they just needed someone who could actually properly describe the problem, so we got away with about 100 development hours, which is not much in an SAP context, simply because the system is so darn huge, you will probably spend 10 hours alone to find the proper location in the business process to apply your change to.

Sadly, customer still went bankrupt. Because the physical process was suboptimal still. But at least the software could model it in the end ;-)

Re: What's SAP?

#566
post #7

Hi! (I'm one of the editors of this post.) When I was researching SAP, I found a fact sheet: https://www.sap.com/docs/download/2017/04/4666ecdd-b67c-0010... , that has quite a few interesting facts: * "[SAP] customers distribute 78% of the world’s food and 82% of the world’s medical devices" * "[SAP] customers include 98% of the 100 most valued brands" * "77% of the world’s transaction revenue touches an SAP system"…

> "[SAP] customers distribute 78% of the world’s food and 82% of the world’s medical devices"

That sounds wrong, as I am pretty sure the majority of the worlds food is distributed in places that can't afford or need SAP (and is essentially sold black market). I doubt that street markets in India use it for example.

Re: What's SAP?

#567
post #163
post #89

Tesla decided a few years ago to replace SAP with something they built themself https://www.mendix.com/blog/tesla-cio-builds-erp-house-4-mon... I love this story, it really isn't that hard to replace SAP once you know the requirements.

A lot of this is just plain pointless bravado. Eventually a lot of people have to outsource their payroll and other admin work, it's just cheaper that way. Then you just discover your are doing many things unique to your company so you kind of have to retrain a lot of finance and office management staff. And keep retraining them. Then also maintain teams of programmers to do maintain your software. You don't want a c…

Not necessarily true. The place I work at does the payroll with some cheaper payroll ERP. Most other things...well let's just say a programmer to make the entire thing was cheaper and more effective. The ERP has to interface with various NFC and barcode scanners, ticket printers, etc other companies appliance interfaces, the consultancy costs to adapt and existing erp and make it keep track of the entire production process and it's unique quirks would be trough the roof and make any subsequent version upgrade unmanageable cost and time wise.

Re: What's SAP?

#568
SAP is a test suite to determine the resilience of a company against the highest form of software bullshittery. If a company actually survives a SAP rollout, it's pretty solidly positioned. The downside is, those tests cost a shitload of budget.

Re: What's SAP?

#569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correct answer here is "it depends". SAP isn't (just) a giant pile of steaming data model mess because of the thousands of people involved building that software, but really because it can model every tax case in every country in the world. Thought you had a great model for your sales tax that covered US and the EU? Well, enter Brazil and think again, with four slightly different taxes, some of which are applied…

> configuring SAP to do what you want it to do is often on par with writing your own system from scratch. Hyperbole. A lot of working with an ERP is developing middleware or custom modules that implement business-specific logic on top of an existing API and schema. It's like saying building a Facebook App is equivalent to rebuilding the entire Facebook Platform. > So we've dared to build our own multinational and ful…

> I hear this all the time, and it's almost always wrong. Engineers and businesses are always convinced they're special and don't fit the mold. That's rarely the case, and the money used on these initiatives was probably better spent elsewhere.

That seems like big statement given you have no context about the person making it.

I also work on a team that has built large potions of this intentionally and willingly. And the results have been great.

The reason is we don't hand off our business to a black box part way through our business process. We own it. Top to bottom.

This means when we change the products we sell, how we sell them and how we support them, we know the impact on our back office, reporting, invoicing and accounting systems. And vice versa

Yes owning the whole stack is expensive. But we also have parts of our company that rely on ERPs and other similar products.

I can tell you very clearly that our ability to develop products is an order of magnitude faster and cheaper than those relying on an ERP.

Re: What's SAP?

#570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible to make statically linked applications but it's pretty much never done. And it's against the linux packaging mantra, where you should be able to "apt-get install libqt" for example (noting that libqt package is completely detached from the release cycle of your application). This leads to a ton of accidental dependencies and they're tied to the OS release. Even the simplest of apps might eventually depe…

It's why MS tried to push the British gov to accept their shitty ODF format rather than a proper one. Because they wanted backwards compatibility with their modern and stoneage office suite versions with their own quirks and issues. They're obsessed with backwards compatibility and it has it's own issues.

Microsoft Office's native format is OOXML (Office Open XML). The ODF (OpenDocument Format) is the native format of LibreOffice, and the UK decided to go with this one (despite Microsoft's lobbying).

https://www.computerweekly.com/news/2240225262/Microsoft-att...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/using-open-document-formats-odf-...

Post reply on HN