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What's SAP?

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Re: What's SAP?

#551

Post by modo_mario »

user5994461 wrote: post #528
jgalt212 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are there no fat binaries in linux? or are they just not used?

It's possible to make statically linked applications but it's pretty much never done. And it's against the linux packaging mantra, where you should be able to "apt-get install libqt" for example (noting that libqt package is completely detached from the release cycle of your application). This leads to a ton of accidental dependencies and they're tied to the OS release. Even the simplest of apps might eventually depe…

It's why MS tried to push the British gov to accept their shitty ODF format rather than a proper one. Because they wanted backwards compatibility with their modern and stoneage office suite versions with their own quirks and issues.

They're obsessed with backwards compatibility and it has it's own issues.

Re: What's SAP?

#552

Post by bock »

neves wrote: post #468
cptaj wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For someone with a web development freelancing background wanting to get into enterprise software, would you recommend going into SAP? Would Salesforce be a better path? Which one is better for a freelancer working from home (if any)? Feel free to share any other thoughts on the matter

I don't know about Salesforce, but SAP courses are really expensive. Just corporate users do them. It's almost impossible to self educate yourself without working in a SAP Consulting firm.

There is https://open.sap.com/ Free courses directly from SAP without expensive consulting firms in-between.

For parent maybe this would be interesting: https://open.sap.com/courses/cp7

Re: What's SAP?

#553

Post by qubex »

tomnipotent wrote: post #534
qubex wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah... when my family business installed SAP the auditors were delighted. But... here’s the thing: standardised ledgers that make a company easy to audit have no positive correlation with corporate effectiveness and competitive advantage. It’s great that your work is simplified, but frankly, it’s totally irrelevant. I’d rather my auditors had to hail their dreaded IT departments than having the whole firm rendered e…

> It’s great that your work is simplified, but frankly, it’s totally irrelevant It's the other way around. It's totally irrelevant to re-invent the wheel and do something in a non-standard way. > I’d rather my auditors had to hail their dreaded IT departments That's not how auditing works. The point of GAAP is that things are done a certain way, and if you do things differently you need to provide that it isn't bulls…

> That’s not how auditing works. The point of GAAP...

Hate to break it to you, but there’s other countries and other regimens out there.

Re: What's SAP?

#554

Post by warpspin »

jsd3 wrote: post #410
warpspin wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I share your general notion that companies better adjust to the process of SAP, I still want to comment on the "impossible to upgrade" part, as that is simply not true. First off, in SAP speech, "customization" is the act of simply adjusting the vast configuration options. This does not affect your upgrade possibilities at all. Even if you go so far as to add custom programming, as long as you (lowest complexit…

That "customization" definition is not quite right. Configuration is not typically called customization. A lot of companies use "Z" programs (a prefix indicating something is custom) to front-end or augment existing SAP functionality. Companies may also create user-exits in SAP programs, or additional code to run when something happens ("send xx an email when the first sales order for a customer is created", for exam…

Configuration IS typically called customization in SAP. "The Customizing" is SAP speech for the sum of all configuration settings and it IS DEFINED THAT WAY IN THE OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION, even in the english version (the difference is more blatant in the german version, as "customizen" and "customizing" are not german words, but still used in the german docs to specifically refer to the configuration section of SAP)

https://help.sap.com/viewer/521cd184dd2f491a9a4179edb66951c3...

Let me quote: "The term Customizing refers to the process of system configuration during which the members of the project teams make the required system settings. In the SAP System, Customizing activities are performed through the Implementation Guide (IMG)."

And no, this leaves no room for interpretation. The IMG is basically the centralized config setting catalogue of SAP and does not allow programming.

It may not be, what is typically meant with customization or with other systems, but in SAP "customization" refers by definition to anything which can be configured WITHOUT programming.

All documents clearly differentiate between "customizing" = using the configuration, "extending/programming/development" which would be Z-reports etc., "enhancement" with user exits, BADIs and the like and "modifying", which would be patching the standard programs.

And yes, of course upgrades still require testing. But saying it is "impossible" to upgrade just because you have z-reports and the like is plain wrong. Most of the time, especially if we do not speak about a full blown ECC to S4 migration, which involves large scale changes to the underlying database structure of the ERP unlike upgrades within the ECC line itself, you will not require updates to your z reports at all.

Re: What's SAP?

#555

Post by tomnipotent »

jsmith99 wrote: post #509
endymi0n wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correct answer here is "it depends". SAP isn't (just) a giant pile of steaming data model mess because of the thousands of people involved building that software, but really because it can model every tax case in every country in the world. Thought you had a great model for your sales tax that covered US and the EU? Well, enter Brazil and think again, with four slightly different taxes, some of which are applied…

Full ERP? For what size organisation? I expect the finance team are using a 'real' ERP behind the scenes and posting the values from the custom system manually every month, copying and pasting from it almost as if it was an old fashioned day-book.

> I expect the finance team are using a 'real' ERP behind the scenes and posting the values from the custom system manually every month

Exactly this.

At a prior startup years ago, I noticed that the accounting & finance team was always in the office late along with the engineers. I would ask them to show me the spreadsheets/models/forecasts they were working on and how it all worked because it seemed so important to the CEO & CFO.

I casually commented I could build this more effectively in code, and a half dozen people laughed at my joke. They then sat me down and showed me things like journal entries, how deferred revenue is managed or annual subscriptions are recognized. There were dozens of examples of scenarios that were completely unique from each other and required tools to allow them to capture these things and roll them up into a consistent P&L and income statement, balance sheet, and cash flow statements all adding up nicely.

And you realize that it's completely impossible for a company to capture all of this correctly "in flight", and things are going to be messy and wrong. ERP's have decades of experience capturing the nightmare that is actually managing a business and it's not sexy, but it works better than most alternatives.

Re: What's SAP?

#556

Post by tomnipotent »

gt_grc wrote: post #522
tomnipotent wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software No they cannot. ERP's are beasts of expert domain knowledge hidden in shitty codebases, but don't be confused for an even a moment to think you can do it yourself. It's a fools errand, and I'd fire or not hire anyone that tried to intentionally do this rather than just build something basic to hedge time until you have to implement something more se…

"Beasts of expert domain knowledge hidden in shitty codebases" is a great way to describe most of the enterprise software I've spent my career configuring and administering. And it highlights what most users of enterprise software don't fully grasp: You don't buy it because it's user-friendly or because it's the most modern technology; you buy it for the battle-tested built-in domain knowledge.

> you buy it for the battle-tested built-in domain knowledge.

This was my hardest lesson to learn. Code is only as good as the domain knowledge going into it. I love games because the domain is more often than not in the realm of fellow programmers and erudites like mathematicians and 3D animators that capture their domain knowledge in physics, sound effects, motion capture, fluid dynamics, FSM AI, or combining geometric and linear algebra to improve gimbal lock.

An ERP on the other hand captures the domain of accounting, finance, procurement, manufacturing (bills of material), order management, taxes, product lifecycle management, and other considerably less sexy but equally important subjects.

Re: What's SAP?

#557

Post by [deleted] »

qubex wrote: post #553
tomnipotent wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s great that your work is simplified, but frankly, it’s totally irrelevant It's the other way around. It's totally irrelevant to re-invent the wheel and do something in a non-standard way. > I’d rather my auditors had to hail their dreaded IT departments That's not how auditing works. The point of GAAP is that things are done a certain way, and if you do things differently you need to provide that it isn't bulls…

> That’s not how auditing works. The point of GAAP... Hate to break it to you, but there’s other countries and other regimens out there.

[deleted]

Re: What's SAP?

#558

Post by jsmith99 »

qubex wrote: post #553
tomnipotent wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s great that your work is simplified, but frankly, it’s totally irrelevant It's the other way around. It's totally irrelevant to re-invent the wheel and do something in a non-standard way. > I’d rather my auditors had to hail their dreaded IT departments That's not how auditing works. The point of GAAP is that things are done a certain way, and if you do things differently you need to provide that it isn't bulls…

> That’s not how auditing works. The point of GAAP... Hate to break it to you, but there’s other countries and other regimens out there.

Of course USGAAP is not the only financial reporting standard (I posted a parent comment and I work in the UK on IFRS which is used in almost every other country) but US audit standards are quite close, and converging, to International Standards on Auditing from the IAASB used internationally.

Re: What's SAP?

#559

Post by tomnipotent »

qubex wrote: post #553
tomnipotent wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s great that your work is simplified, but frankly, it’s totally irrelevant It's the other way around. It's totally irrelevant to re-invent the wheel and do something in a non-standard way. > I’d rather my auditors had to hail their dreaded IT departments That's not how auditing works. The point of GAAP is that things are done a certain way, and if you do things differently you need to provide that it isn't bulls…

> That’s not how auditing works. The point of GAAP... Hate to break it to you, but there’s other countries and other regimens out there.

Doesn't take a lot of imagination to replace GAAP with IFRS or your acronym of choice.

Re: What's SAP?

#560

Post by sobani »

qubex wrote: post #553
tomnipotent wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s great that your work is simplified, but frankly, it’s totally irrelevant It's the other way around. It's totally irrelevant to re-invent the wheel and do something in a non-standard way. > I’d rather my auditors had to hail their dreaded IT departments That's not how auditing works. The point of GAAP is that things are done a certain way, and if you do things differently you need to provide that it isn't bulls…

> That’s not how auditing works. The point of GAAP... Hate to break it to you, but there’s other countries and other regimens out there.

> > That’s not how auditing works. The point of GAAP...

> Hate to break it to you, but there’s other countries and other regimens out there.

Which country are you from that it doesn't have Generally Accepted Accounting Principles? Are you saying that in your country every company can make up what they want and the authorities are OK with that?

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