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Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free

bail-app.netlify.com

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Re: Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free

#101

Post by omarhaneef »

madamelic wrote: post #95
kelnos wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That... also sounds worse. This is all just advocating for not actually communicating with your friends. That's not friendship, that's transactional hanging-out.

The optimal choice for using this app is to always bail. I mean, if you don't bail, the other person(s) might not want to be there. If "the double bail" does occur; more time to hang out with other people or be alone.

I can imagine two friends who love each others company and desperately want to hang out keep canceling plans because they have the app set to let the other one out.

They each end up spending time with more demanding people who don’t care what they want.

(Because this is the internet: kidding. The app can work, just be honest with the app at least)

Re: Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free

#102

Post by crdoconnor »

saber6 wrote: post #31
kerkeslager wrote: post #23

I can't imagine being friends with someone who is this incapable of communicating. The solution to this problem is sending a text that says, "Hey, I'm not feeling like coming out today after all. Rain check?" This app is a worse solution than the obvious solution. Trying to be empathetic: if you feel the need to use something like this, I'm not qualified to diagnose you as having social anxiety, but I would suggest y…

To be fair I think this falls into the category of "ugh I'm not really feeling like going out... and I don't want to disappoint my friend.... if only I knew he wasn't too hot to trot tonight as well..." But I understand your point and agree with you. I prefer direct communication. If you don't want to hang out just say so - I like clarity.

in those instances I'm almost always glad I went afterwards even if I wasn't feeling "hot to trot" before.

Re: Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free

#103

Post by sandoooo »

madamelic wrote: post #95
kelnos wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That... also sounds worse. This is all just advocating for not actually communicating with your friends. That's not friendship, that's transactional hanging-out.

The optimal choice for using this app is to always bail. I mean, if you don't bail, the other person(s) might not want to be there. If "the double bail" does occur; more time to hang out with other people or be alone.

This is exactly Prisoner's Dilemma and all relevant literature applies. Iterate a few times with a large population and the optimal strategy goes to all sorts of weird places.

Re: Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free

#106

Post by hug »

kelnos wrote: post #69
kazinator wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this app doesn't send any notification to the other person unless they also bail, so it is not equivalent to sending that text. If the other person doesn't bail, you can stick with the commitment. That opens possibilities, like getting a better opinion about time spent with that person.

That... also sounds worse. This is all just advocating for not actually communicating with your friends. That's not friendship, that's transactional hanging-out.

I think a lot of people here are missing the point.

Let me tell you a story.

Wednesdays, my friends and I go to the bar to hang out. We grab some beers and some wings, and we have a bit of a chat about, y'know, whatever. Sometimes we're around because someone just wants some company. Sometimes we're around because someone just wants to gripe about something going on. Sometimes we're there because... well, some Wednesdays we're there just because.

And, y'know, it makes me happy to be around when people want to hang out, for whatever reason, because we're friends and that's what friends do.

But sometimes, maybe, I could just as well go home. Like, I'm not opposed to the idea of going: If someone wants to get something off their chest or just really feels like hanging around having a laugh, I'm more than happy to be there with them. But nor, particularly, do I care about being there this particular Wednesday, except for the other guys.

Don't get me wrong: Some Wednesdays I really don't want to go, I've had a shit day at work, I didn't sleep well, and I just want to go home and lay in bed with a book until I crash. Those days, I'll just send a message saying that I'm not up for coming out tonight, sorry.

On the other hand, those nights where I could take it or leave it, I don't really want to send a text saying "hey guys do you want to, maybe, cancel this evening? like, I don't wanna not go, but y'know, I don't want to go either?", because that sounds like some tedious bullshit. And if anyone who didn't particularly give a shit had to announce to the world every time they did not, in fact, give a shit, we'd all get over that really quickly.

The fact that I don't care for sending that message (or receiving a bunch of them either) doesn't really mean a whole lot, in and of itself: It just means that I end up going out more frequently than is, I guess, 'optimal'. And this isn't a problem that needs solving, because eating a couple of wings when I otherwise wouldn't once every two months is hardly a herculean struggle for me, but solving that minor coordination problem isn't exactly an act that devalues my friendships in any way.

Maybe it would make Wednesdays at the pub a little bit more special, because you never have the nights when no one is particularly excited about being there.

Re: Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free

#107

Post by sandoooo »

duxup wrote: post #43
adaisadais wrote: post #29

This is the most San Francisco thing ever.

Someone once noted that there were a whole series of various startup ideas and products that could be covered by "things 20 something engineers wish their mom would still do for them". I feel like this one is "Mom I don't want to meet up with Sarah today, can you tell her mom that I have a doctor's appointment?"

It's remarkable how much of the criticism aimed at SV can be summed up as:

# they're 20-something.

# they're white.

# they're male.

# and this is low status.

Re: Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free

#108

Post by ravenstine »

romwell wrote: post #94

To the developer: kudos. Ignore the naysayers. Why build this — why the f * not? It's not like there are apps out there that do the same. And adding another way to interact with people is fun . That's not to mention it might help people with anxiety. Sure, it's not a silver bullet. I don't know if I'd really use it. But it's novel, and why not. Now, there's a real problem with this app, and it's that it's a feature t…

> To the developer: kudos. Ignore the naysayers. Why build this — why the f* not? It's not like there are apps out there that do the same. And adding another way to interact with people is fun.

Because some people have the moral compass to think about the consequences of the applications they build.

The world doesn't need more crutches for people who can't communicate in such a basic way.

Think about it; if you don't want to do something with someone or are unable, you owe it to both yourself and the other person to speak your opinion. Waiting for the other person to bail first is a lack of communication. This isn't going to help people who have communication problems. It can only make their disability worse, or cause them to resort to being friends with others with the same disability, which can prevent them from overcoming it.

Personally, I'd lose respect for someone who tried to use this "feature".

Re: Bail – Get out of your plans, guilt free

#110

Post by ravenstine »

lostcolony wrote: post #18
leetrout wrote: post #6

This is a little bit sad and a little bit scary. Have we reached the point where we now prefer to avoid actual communications with our "friends" that this exists? It's up there with people who won't answer phone calls and only want to text.

That's not the reason. Telling a friend you want to cancel is hard, and depressing, and so you oftentimes go just to not bail on them. And hate it. But what if your friend is feeling the same way? What if you both want to cancel, but neither of you wants to hurt the other person. Well, with something like this, you can bail without letting them down; they only know you wanted to bail -if they also want to bail-. That…

> Telling a friend you want to cancel is hard, and depressing, and so you oftentimes go just to not bail on them. And hate it.

Holy cow, just how disempowered are people that they can't be honest with their friends?

OMG, I don't want to eat at McDonald's today, but what if Marco gets super disappointed that I won't meet him at McDonald's and eat fries with him! He'll be so depressed. I'm so depressed! .... I really hope he bails before I do.

As I've mentioned elsewhere in this thread, I don't think that products like this help anyone. It might seem harmless, and maybe it will be, but only if few end up using it. Otherwise, it's not going to help people expand their social abilities, their sense of self value, etc.

A friendship based on withheld communication is dysfunctional.

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