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What's SAP?

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Re: What's SAP?

#441

Post by jedberg »

widforss wrote: post #435

I worked one summer (2014) manufacturing emergency stop buttons for ABB. We used SAP for our incoming orders. Each order was printed on paper as some kind of report from SAP and put in our physical inbox. When we had manufactured buttons for an order, we would go to a desk with two computers, both logged in to SAP. With the first computer we would scan a barcode from the order to find it in the system, mark the order…

What did you do with the paper you used between the two computers? Did you toss it or was it filed somewhere?

If it was filed, my guess was that it was an internal control measure. They wanted to make sure there was a paper copy of every transaction for audit purposes, and what better way to make sure of that then requiring the paper to move the order forward?

If you tossed it, then it sounds like they were just too lazy to implement something other than the default config. :)

Re: What's SAP?

#442

Post by cc81 »

thdrdt wrote: post #215
carstenhag wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A perfect example for a failure for this is Lidl's Elwis, they invested 500 million € into it and in 2018 they aborted the entire project. English article: https://www.handelsblatt.com/today/companies/programmed-for-... Key quote: >Unlike many of their competitors, Lidl bases its inventory management system on purchase prices. The standard SAP for Retail software uses retail prices. Lidl didn’t want to change, so the…

But I still think this is a failure of SAP. What if the business model of Lidl is way better than the standard? Then Lidl is very wise not to follow how SAP works.

It is very possible but then that system is not for you. These systems are incredibly complex already and while there will always be some customization you should question yourself if this is where your competitive advantage is?

Is Lidl earning more money than their competitors because they base their inventory management system on purchase prices while others do not? Then build/buy a system that handles that and it could very well be worth it if you look at the business case

But if it is like that because that is how we started out and we cannot quantify how much better it is...then maybe you should just change your process.

Re: What's SAP?

#443

Post by achow »

majewsky wrote: post #412
achow wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure you got the OP's comment. What OP is saying - Perhaps SAP 'optimal processes' made absolutely sense few decades back, but when new time came and world or best practices changed, those optimal processes were no longer optimal, but still one needs to keep using those.. because SAP. From Micro-USB analogy - world has changed, but you still need to keep using Micro-USB for your USB-C phone... because SAP.

I understood GP perfectly. What I'm saying is that the future need for a different business process does not necessarily outweigh the benefit of standardizing on something else today, just like a USB-C future does not invalidate the original decision of standardizing on USB-C.

Sure.

But let's examine the question in this light - Today a new CEO was hired in a new company, she is smart AND has multi-millions to spend on an ERP, which she considers absolute must for smooth running of company operations.

Now since she is smart, she is aware of SAP's reputation - i.e., SAP has absolutely nailed down today's optimal business processes (never mind those are actually decades old practices), however SAP would be very inflexible when she wants to innovate on business processes due to anticipated business landscape change (Ex. manufacturing moving back to home from China, and maybe lights out manufacturing).

Being smart, what would she do - would she go for SAP?

Re: What's SAP?

#444

Post by cc81 »

orbifold wrote: post #128
new_here wrote: post #90

SAP today are just plainly incompetent and ripe for disruption. I've had quite a bit of interaction with SAP over the last few years, here are some examples: - Almost all meetings I've been in start with prospective clients mentioning to SAP consultants that SAP has a 'certain reputation'. The SAP consultants acknowledge this. - Some of the solution pitch ideas they come up with signal they have almost zero knowledge…

It really is insane, I know people who don't even work for SAP, are "IT consultants", whose credentials are a (very good) Art History degree and travel around nationally and internationally to essentially push a button to do SAP database migrations after mergers and acquisitions. There are independent companies that just live off the fact how bad SAP is.

I know a software developer who has an unrelated degree but is very good at his job.

And yes SAP is bad but it is also something that will do most stuff you need to do and follow the right laws when you do it.

Re: What's SAP?

#445

Post by rbanffy »

jkhaui wrote: post #192
1propionyl wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ERP software generally sucks The question isn't whether it "sucks" or not, but rather to whom it "sucks". It rightly reads as sucking to us as tech-savvy developers, but that's not the reality for the actual consumers of such products who are not programmers . To them, irregardless of our protests of inefficiency or bloat, there are only 2-3 possible platforms and the competitive advantages of each over the others…

Except it seems the consensus is that it really does suck - both from the perspective of HackerNews and the people forced to use it

> it seems the consensus is that it really does suck

It sucks to the people who has to use it and maintain it. It doesn't suck for the people who sign the checks that pay for the licenses and the hardware to run it.

Re: What's SAP?

#446

Post by ta999999171 »

sanxiyn wrote: post #182
Manfred wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ERP is basically a centralized hosted version of a lot of spreadsheets. So no, because Excel doesn’t facilitate cooperation very well.

So Google Sheets would work?

If you have 400-1000 hours to reinvent the wheel, sure!

Re: What's SAP?

#447

Post by rbanffy »

deelly wrote: post #106
lucasverra wrote: post #98

Can please a decision maker regarding SAP buying/implementing tell us how on earth SAP is that mainstream (in corporate) ? I've had to use it at EU big corp, and it to this day the worst experience I had. I've seen at techcrunch Berlin 2019 that there is something called SAP.io, somewhat opening its plateform ?

Can you name good alternative that supports all SAP features?

> supports all SAP features?

Out of the box, probably nothing. Something that supports all features you will actually want to use? That depends on who you are and what you actually need to do but, then, you'll need to figure out what you want, what you need and what is available on the market. This assessment is, in itself, quite costly.

Re: What's SAP?

#448

Post by ta999999171 »

et2o wrote: post #377
ta999999171 wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you absolutely need training to understand a UI, your UI sucks. Badly.

Definitely some truth to this buf, also a bit different for highly specialized software which people are using to do the same things consistently. Almost like looking at an airplane cockpit and thinking it's too complicated.

Horrible example considering how many planes have had fatal wrecks because of this exact problem recently...

Re: What's SAP?

#449

Post by Accujack »

cryptica wrote: post #282
mr_gibbins wrote: post #230

I teach enterprise systems at a university, with emphasis on SAP. It's hideous. Hideous. My students complain it is unusable (agree), doesn't make sense (agree), that they can't see the point (agree). When you look at the underlying database 'schema' (inverted commas deliberate) you'll find it's a massive, denormalised mess. Much of what SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software. Reports, for…

SAP, IBM and Oracle mostly rely on free fiat money straight from the government or other artificial monopolies to keep their businesses going. They don't need to deliver anything. What they do is beyond inefficient. Companies would be better off using open source solutions and hiring developers to integrate various systems from scratch.

Wow... that's.... nope.

ERP software and in particular SAP is awful, has some major limitations, and is a pain to use, but the alternatives are much worse. Only a company like IBM might manage to develop an in-house ERP based on open source technology... but more likely they'd fail.

Some "enterprise grade" software is literally that. SAP works. It sucks and it's expensive, but it works.

Re: What's SAP?

#450

Post by ta999999171 »

bagacrap wrote: post #420
OldGuyInTheClub wrote: post #32

SAP has enabled/mandated an army of people at my company who manage it and ruthlessly control even read access to it. The software is user-hostile, intentionally obscure, and all requests for slightly customized reports have to go through a multilayered approval process - often up to corporate - where it competes for funding against other survivors. Needing something custom invites constant questions of why the stand…

The army of SAP trained technicians and extreme sunk-cost based lock-in sounds a lot like Epic.

Same biz model.
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