Live data from Hacker News

What's SAP?

retool.com

411–420 of 622 posts

Re: What's SAP?

#411
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure you got the OP's comment. What OP is saying - Perhaps SAP 'optimal processes' made absolutely sense few decades back, but when new time came and world or best practices changed, those optimal processes were no longer optimal, but still one needs to keep using those.. because SAP. From Micro-USB analogy - world has changed, but you still need to keep using Micro-USB for your USB-C phone... because SAP.

> when new time came and world or best practices changed, those optimal processes were no longer optimal, but still one needs to keep using those.. because SAP The underlying assertion here - made without evidence - is that business processes have changed enough to move away from the SAP-defined ones. Have they?

The underlying assertion is there's -no way to tell- any more. Because there's not continual research being done, and there's not even much in the way of anecdotal evidence to inspire research because any large enough company ends up needing SAP (or similar) and has to adopt their workflows as part of it.

Re: What's SAP?

#412
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. We also found out that Micro-USB as a charging plug for phones does not cover all new uses. But standardizing on Micro-USB was still the correct course of action at the time.

Not sure you got the OP's comment. What OP is saying - Perhaps SAP 'optimal processes' made absolutely sense few decades back, but when new time came and world or best practices changed, those optimal processes were no longer optimal, but still one needs to keep using those.. because SAP. From Micro-USB analogy - world has changed, but you still need to keep using Micro-USB for your USB-C phone... because SAP.

I understood GP perfectly. What I'm saying is that the future need for a different business process does not necessarily outweigh the benefit of standardizing on something else today, just like a USB-C future does not invalidate the original decision of standardizing on USB-C.

Re: What's SAP?

#414

I teach enterprise systems at a university, with emphasis on SAP. It's hideous. Hideous. My students complain it is unusable (agree), doesn't make sense (agree), that they can't see the point (agree). When you look at the underlying database 'schema' (inverted commas deliberate) you'll find it's a massive, denormalised mess. Much of what SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software. Reports, for…

> I (am actually told to) teach that changing the business to fit SAP is preferable to changing SAP to fit the business. And it's accurate advice. It shouldn't be, but it is. SAP is SAP. It doesn't care about your USP. Or your custom approach to business. As far as SAP is concerned all businesses are the same, they do the same things, and all must conform. Resistance is futile. I've worked in companies making decisio…

I once worked for a company that let me go because I looked bad on their bottom line and they were looking to sell the company, around 2003. So, severance package in hand, and one week later I had a new position at another company making much more than I was originally.

Anyhow - I was essentially the sole developer of a simple ERP system written in VB6 and using an Access 2003 MDB file for storage. It was being used in-house by most of the company at that point, from billing, to shipping software and patches, to other reporting, CRM, etc. I looked bad to the bottom line because my salary was going entirely into this in-house developed product, that was producing no revenue for the company. I was a literal cost center; I don't blame them for letting me go - it was probably a good business decision...

When I was let go, I was trying to transition to postgresql for the backend (away from the MDB file), and hopefully move the frontend away from VB6 - and make the whole thing a web application in some manner.

They told me when I was let go they told me they were looking into other options to replace the software I had almost single-handedly written to manage the business.

So - I was let go, and the business was sold. Twice. Today, it's part of HP, last I was aware - about 3 years ago. That was about the time that I had to look for a new job, and talked to my former supervisor there (he'd since become VP of his department).

Yep - still using the same old software, with virtually no updates or fixes. Still running on the MDB file. And somehow, it was still all working, nearly 15 years later. I'm amazed, impressed, shocked, and also in complete wonderment how it hasn't fallen over hard since then.

As far as I know - they are still using it. I've been told that both the original company that bought them, then HP (after they bought that company), both looked at the software and wanted to monetize it - everyone who's seen it has been fairly impressed with it, from what I understand. But, because it's so tightly integrated with the business, plus that it was never designed to be modular and salable, has meant that without a major refactor, it can't be easily done.

Honestly, I'm glad it can't - I'd do so many things differently today that I didn't do then (and if done, they could probably sell it as well); it's the kind of code that I know some developer will look at, then want to track me down for a good ol' fashioned murdering - or at least to beat me with a baseball bat.

Re: What's SAP?

#415

I teach enterprise systems at a university, with emphasis on SAP. It's hideous. Hideous. My students complain it is unusable (agree), doesn't make sense (agree), that they can't see the point (agree). When you look at the underlying database 'schema' (inverted commas deliberate) you'll find it's a massive, denormalised mess. Much of what SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software. Reports, for…

I think your comment trivialises what ERP does. Analytics is trivial compared to standardizing processes. I like that when I create a BOM and routing I can be sure that all the inventory created using it will have the correct cost absorbed, and I can prove it to my auditor so I don't get a qualified audit, and a SOX violation and lose my company. You can't do that in a spreadsheet. I like the way I can have hundreds of people involved, I can have hundreds of sales orders, hundreds of production orders, hundreds of picks, hundreds of goods receipts, hundreds of purchase orders from hundreds of suppliers, entered by hundreds of people, and yet I still know my stock level and value, my back orders, my revenue to a very high degree of certainty. And I can audit every one.

You must be much better at Excel than I am if you can ensure consistency with multiple users and millions of rows?

ERPs track inventory, and orders very well. They don't need pretty graphs to do that.

Re: What's SAP?

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And let's not forget Hershey's disaster which they blamed on SAP and their implementation partners, mentioned here with 14 other ERP failures (yes, SAP is predominant, but there are other offenders as well...; article Oct 2019) https://www.cio.com/article/2429865/enterprise-resource-plan...

How much does the CEO get paid to offload responsibility for failure onto vendors?

They are saying it the face of litigation from the vendor, so probably not enough.

Re: What's SAP?

#417

I teach enterprise systems at a university, with emphasis on SAP. It's hideous. Hideous. My students complain it is unusable (agree), doesn't make sense (agree), that they can't see the point (agree). When you look at the underlying database 'schema' (inverted commas deliberate) you'll find it's a massive, denormalised mess. Much of what SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software. Reports, for…

> SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software

No they cannot. ERP's are beasts of expert domain knowledge hidden in shitty codebases, but don't be confused for an even a moment to think you can do it yourself. It's a fools errand, and I'd fire or not hire anyone that tried to intentionally do this rather than just build something basic to hedge time until you have to implement something more serious - be it SAP, Sage, Dynamix, BlueCherry, NetSuite etc.

Also good luck passing an accounting audit with your vastly inadequate internal tools. Did you implement GAAP? FIFO for inventory? Tools to provide receipt of goods scanning and reconciliation vs the original invoice? How about split shipments of PO's? Landed costs? Accrual accounts?

How about providing your accounting, finance, planning, and merchandising teams with the tools they need to get their jobs done? I'm sure you'll be super happy you spent a year building those internal tools only to discover no one likes them because your team lacked the context and domain expertise to understand all the nuances of how things come together and the business processes the tools and ERP modules supported.

The problems that ERP's solve are incredibly esoteric and require incredible expertise across a number of fields to appreciate why things are done the way they are (horrible code/APIs aside).

Re: What's SAP?

#418

SAP implementation basically sunk Target's huge investment into operations in Canada https://www.canadianbusiness.com/the-last-days-of-target-can... Seems to me SAP is ripe for disruption, but it would be a very challenging throne to unseat.

SAP projects don't fail because the software doesn't work. They fail when business and IT leadership are weak or don't understand what it takes to get these projects done, or they are doing them for the wrong reasons.

Re: What's SAP?

#420

SAP has enabled/mandated an army of people at my company who manage it and ruthlessly control even read access to it. The software is user-hostile, intentionally obscure, and all requests for slightly customized reports have to go through a multilayered approval process - often up to corporate - where it competes for funding against other survivors. Needing something custom invites constant questions of why the stand…

The army of SAP trained technicians and extreme sunk-cost based lock-in sounds a lot like Epic.
Post reply on HN