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Surveillance on UK council websites [pdf]

brave.com

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Re: Surveillance on UK council websites [pdf]

#21

Post by sandwell »

throwawaylolx wrote: post #18

The entire article and "report" are so aggressive that it makes it difficult to extract any nuance out of it other than that I should use Brave. Is the core issue that council websites are using real-time bidding for their ads? Is this specific to the UK?

> Is the core issue that council websites are using real-time bidding for their ads?

Yes. These websites are used to support a variety of public services, e.g. disability, poverty, drugs, or alcoholism services.

Brave believes that sending tracking information about people accessing this information is a breach of privacy.

Re: Surveillance on UK council websites [pdf]

#22

Post by MrAlex94 »

ajor wrote: post #17
MrAlex94 wrote: post #5

So I have read this report, but it would be good if there were some example URLs of where this is happening. Take for instance Lambeth's website ( https://www.lambeth.gov.uk ). I've browsed through a few public facing pages and the council tax payment pages. The report says Lambeth shows 1 real time bidding, 1 social and 5 Google "trackers". From my network requests I see: -> Google Translate and its resources (CSS e…

Privacy Badger says that "Yellow" sites where it blocks cookies do appear to be trying to track you, but are necessary for the site to work[1]. That makes 5 trackers PB has identified on Lambeth's website. [1] https://www.eff.org/privacybadger/faq#What-do-the-red,-yello...

I see - thanks for the info. So all relating to Google from what I'm getting on the website request.

Re: Surveillance on UK council websites [pdf]

#23

Post by grsmto »

MrAlex94 wrote: post #19
grsmto wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment was making sense until you started comparing a council website with a marketing product (Brave.com).

It doesn't invalidate what I've found though? Also Brave themselves market as being privacy friendly, blocking ads and trackers etc... is it not fair to judge them as well if they are reporting this as egregious?

No it's not fair because what they report as egregious is not the tracking themselves but the context! Council websites are public services. And it says in the report "citizens are entitled to expect that public services do not allow private companies to surveil them on their websites.".

Other than that, you are right that it's hard to find what's wrong with that Lambeth website. However the GTM could be a gateway to any kind of data tracking (visited pages, button clicked, etc.) idk if you can actually find out from the console.

Re: Surveillance on UK council websites [pdf]

#24

Post by gruez »

MrAlex94 wrote: post #5

So I have read this report, but it would be good if there were some example URLs of where this is happening. Take for instance Lambeth's website ( https://www.lambeth.gov.uk ). I've browsed through a few public facing pages and the council tax payment pages. The report says Lambeth shows 1 real time bidding, 1 social and 5 Google "trackers". From my network requests I see: -> Google Translate and its resources (CSS e…

>From my network requests I see:

>[...]

>Nothing out of the ordinary here

looks like you're not picking up a bunch of requests. maybe you have ublock? Here are some domains that aren't on your list:

    www.google-analytics.com
    script.hotjar.com
    cse.google.com
    vars.hotjar.com
    www.facebook.com
    stats.g.doubleclick.net
    static.hotjar.com
    connect.facebook.net

Re: Surveillance on UK council websites [pdf]

#26

Post by mpeg »

frou_dh wrote: post #6

Invisible trackers aside, it's simply gross that local government sites have banner ads on them. Have some pride and/or taste!

When you actually look at the sites, it's clear Brave hasn't done their homework or don't really understand the online ad ecosystem.

For example, Enfield council ( enfield.gov.uk ) is using Google's ad server (DFP) set to show only internal ads. All their advertising is for cross-promoting projects and sites that Enfield council is involved with, including pest control, social lettings, a publicly-funded golf course, school meals...

It's not showing ads from GDN (Google Display Network) or elsewhere, it seems to only show these internal promotions.

Re: Surveillance on UK council websites [pdf]

#27

Post by basilgohar »

butler14 wrote: post #20

This is one of the downsides of using an ad-blocker It's literally never occurred to me, as a user of these websites, that local government websites would even have adverts on them -- let alone Google AdSense / junk from Google's Display Network.

How is this a downside to using an ad-blocker? I think it's quite the opposite. An ad-blocker would prevent most of this external JS from being loaded.

Re: Surveillance on UK council websites [pdf]

#28

Post by MrAlex94 »

grsmto wrote: post #23
MrAlex94 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't invalidate what I've found though? Also Brave themselves market as being privacy friendly, blocking ads and trackers etc... is it not fair to judge them as well if they are reporting this as egregious?

No it's not fair because what they report as egregious is not the tracking themselves but the context! Council websites are public services. And it says in the report "citizens are entitled to expect that public services do not allow private companies to surveil them on their websites.". Other than that, you are right that it's hard to find what's wrong with that Lambeth website. However the GTM could be a gateway to…

> No it's not fair because what they report as egregious is not the tracking themselves but the context! Council websites are public services. And it says in the report "citizens are entitled to expect that public services do not allow private companies to surveil them on their websites.".

Ah I see. Agreed there.

Re: Surveillance on UK council websites [pdf]

#29

Post by choathedolls »

butler14 wrote: post #20

This is one of the downsides of using an ad-blocker It's literally never occurred to me, as a user of these websites, that local government websites would even have adverts on them -- let alone Google AdSense / junk from Google's Display Network.

Most extensions show a badge with how many ads have been blocked. From there, some of them also include loggers or similar tools to see exactly which scripts, assets, etc. are being blocked (personally, uBlock's "overview panel" is fantastic for this). All without having to disable your adblocker to check.

So no downside, other than being even more frustrated with the current ad-hellhole.

Re: Surveillance on UK council websites [pdf]

#30

Post by mpeg »

gruez wrote: post #24
MrAlex94 wrote: post #5

So I have read this report, but it would be good if there were some example URLs of where this is happening. Take for instance Lambeth's website ( https://www.lambeth.gov.uk ). I've browsed through a few public facing pages and the council tax payment pages. The report says Lambeth shows 1 real time bidding, 1 social and 5 Google "trackers". From my network requests I see: -> Google Translate and its resources (CSS e…

>From my network requests I see: >[...] >Nothing out of the ordinary here looks like you're not picking up a bunch of requests. maybe you have ublock? Here are some domains that aren't on your list: www.google-analytics.com script.hotjar.com cse.google.com vars.hotjar.com www.facebook.com stats.g.doubleclick.net static.hotjar.com connect.facebook.net

None of those really stand out as being problematic.

Google Analytics, Hotjar are measurement tools. CSE is google's custom search endpoint, stats.*.doubleclick.net is a doubleclick for publishers endpoint (Google's ad server) and doesn't mean much by itself, it doesn't automatically show ads from third parties or send your data to anyone.

The Facebook tags are sadly quite popular these days, I do agree those are not ideal but they are literally all over the net with like buttons, share buttons and "sign in with facebook"

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