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What's SAP?

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Re: What's SAP?

#241

Post by kmarc »

mr_gibbins wrote: post #230

I teach enterprise systems at a university, with emphasis on SAP. It's hideous. Hideous. My students complain it is unusable (agree), doesn't make sense (agree), that they can't see the point (agree). When you look at the underlying database 'schema' (inverted commas deliberate) you'll find it's a massive, denormalised mess. Much of what SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software. Reports, for…

Sounds like my experience with the Avaloq core banking system. Lowest quality crap I ever had to touch.

Re: What's SAP?

#242

Post by fr1tkot »

kriro wrote: post #51

I used to work in a research project where I went to some UX conferences in Germany (not really my field). The big irony/running gag is that SAP seems pretty good in UX-research, Hasso Plattner Institute is fairly recognized for their UX work and yet SAP-UX is a nightmare. They just can't/won't roll out new things.

The HPI is not run by SAP the corporation in any way. It's "just" Hasso Plattners money funding it.

Re: What's SAP?

#243

Post by moron4hire »

mr_gibbins wrote: post #230

I teach enterprise systems at a university, with emphasis on SAP. It's hideous. Hideous. My students complain it is unusable (agree), doesn't make sense (agree), that they can't see the point (agree). When you look at the underlying database 'schema' (inverted commas deliberate) you'll find it's a massive, denormalised mess. Much of what SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software. Reports, for…

To be fair, most businesses never designed their processes and don't really have a need to be "different" from other companies. And if you've ever tried to build a single system for more than one client, you know how frustrating little, tiny differences between companies can be. At least big differences can be charged as a new module!

Re: What's SAP?

#244

Post by BlobRunner »

mbesto wrote: post #117
kumarvvr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The software is user-hostile, intentionally obscure This a million times. I don't know if good interfaces can not be built in SAP, or if it's very difficult to do, or if the developers of apps on SAP platform just don't care. It's a real headache to use and completely confusing. It's 2020 and one would hope software companies realize the value of a good, clear, effective user interface.

I take a very neutral position to this. Enterprise software at the scale SAP is operating (mainly its core ERP) at a Fortune 500 enterprise level. This characteristic (needs at that level) are user-hostile, not the software. Imagine this situation: - You're a F500 pipe manufacturer and a sales person needs to enter an order for 100 pipes to be manufactured and sent to a customer in the US Now imagine you need to: - O…

I don't buy the "real world is complex deal with it" explanation.

Banking (especially in US) is a total complexity nightmare. Yet you have Stripe.com who simplify it.

Your PC operating system complexity and the International Network of computers is so complex you cannot figure it all with your brain alone. Yet you write your email everyday with it and your colleague in China get's it in seconds.

Your supply chain is a nightmare so SAP must be a nightmare to use ? Why ?

Re: What's SAP?

#245

Post by Arwill »

myspy wrote: post #223
Arwill wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the logic is that the Web API's are for apps doing things you would otherwise do in SAP's own GUI. But i agree, SAP is not for those who are sensitive to license prices. Most commonly the solution is a third-party custom built software, that interfaces the data into the back-end SAP system. The OP's comment was about scraping data from pages generated from SAP Web apps. I tried to point out that it make littl…

We did that, with one technical user to share data between our backend and SAP, but got the news that it's not legal and must be licensed per user that's using our app. Even over http you can't access data in SAP without paying your fees accordingly.

It is legal to do that. Its the question how tight your app was doing it? If you just send user actions and answers over HTTP back and forth using a technical user, that's like sharing the user. But if you have your own billing software (for example), and submit finished bills with a SOAP request (for example) to SAP, that is completely ok.

Re: What's SAP?

#246

Post by zxienin »

totololo wrote: post #210

Do "high innovation velocity" companies like Tesla or SpaceX use any ERP? If so, do they develop in house? Use a modern equivalent to SAP?

Tesla built their ERP. Unclear, to what extent. I hope an (ex) insider can share facts.

Re: What's SAP?

#247

Post by swampthinker »

organsnyder wrote: post #232
mr_gibbins wrote: post #230

I teach enterprise systems at a university, with emphasis on SAP. It's hideous. Hideous. My students complain it is unusable (agree), doesn't make sense (agree), that they can't see the point (agree). When you look at the underlying database 'schema' (inverted commas deliberate) you'll find it's a massive, denormalised mess. Much of what SAP can do can be done at the local level using intuitive software. Reports, for…

That's similar to Epic's value proposition in the healthcare space. Sure, their software is above average (with "average" being barely functional or vaporware), but their main selling point is their ability to assist leadership in strongarming an organization to adopt standardized workflows.

As someone working in healthcare, I can attest to the value in getting an healthcare org to adopt standardized workflows. I'll take an org that follows process over better software that isn't used in a consistent manner.

There is too much operational and human complexity to solve healthcare with software alone.

Re: What's SAP?

#248

Post by kumarvvr »

crispyambulance wrote: post #222
kumarvvr wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The software is user-hostile, intentionally obscure This a million times. I don't know if good interfaces can not be built in SAP, or if it's very difficult to do, or if the developers of apps on SAP platform just don't care. It's a real headache to use and completely confusing. It's 2020 and one would hope software companies realize the value of a good, clear, effective user interface.

> It's 2020 and one would hope software companies realize the value of a good, clear, effective user interface. Nope. Forget about it! :-) I think another problem with these horrific ERP's is that their tentacles are everywhere in the org. Oracle EBS, my personal "favorite", runs PLM (product lifecycle management), inventory, order management, work orders, customer install base, finance, purchasing, AND PTO entry, F.…

> Things that SHOULD be taken for granted, like being able to create a hyperlink to the bill of materials for any part number-- that's seriously impossible, it's like a freaking moon shot for them (or so they say).

One of pain points I was talking about. I'm not sure how a screen/module is developed in SAP, but there are huge inconsistencies in various interactions I come across. I am inclined to believe that the third party developer of the screen ought to do some wiring to, say enable hyperlinks, or do logical linked screens but somehow the QA is so bad that it's frustrating.

For example, in our company, when I search for a Material code, there is no way / menu / system to automatically list all Purchase Orders, that contain that Material Code, sorted by date / department. I am guessing that the 3rd party developer ought to have built that functionality, but then what would be the point? After so many years in the ERP domain, shouldn't SAP have an automated system to do that?

Re: What's SAP?

#249

Post by bilekas »

Wow, its a little bit crazy how much SAP actually does, but it does seem like it's been around so long and has embedded itself into so much that people just take it for granted that their stuck with it. I would love to see some case studies of replacing SAP with even an in-house product.

Infact in certain cases I would imagine that an in-house solution with maintenance etc would be more cost efficient.

Re: What's SAP?

#250

Post by pbalau »

1propionyl wrote: post #66
cromulent wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's conflating SAP (a company) with the ERP system, but reality is a little different. There are 133,000 tables in a system I just checked, and 40,000 are flagged as configuration.

What's the breakdown of those configuration tables? I'd imagine (perhaps incorrectly) that most are just integer/enum/bool fields? If so, how many of those tables just exist to define enumeration cases?

Configuration is still data... If by "to define enumeration cases" you mean lookup tables, they exists to ensure data integrity.
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