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Twitter to label deepfakes and other deceptive media

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Re: Twitter to label deepfakes and other deceptive media

#11
post #7
post #3

This seems like an insanely hard problem with many false positives/negatives. But of course the media hysteria against tech and fake news might eat it up and praise twitter. Nice PR move for non techies.

> Nice PR move for non techies. Depends if the praise they get for "at least they're doing something/not pretending the problem doesn't exist" outweighs the criticism they get for false positives, false negatives, inconsistency/bias, arbitrary judgements, response times, or labelling so many things fake that it becomes meaningless. Way back in 1994, Time magazine published a photo of OJ Simpson that was photoshopped…

If they get the right false positives, false negatives, and bias, it might enhance their media reputation overall. For example, a while ago the White House posted a video of an altercation with a journalist which a lot of journalists believed had been manipulated to make it look worse than it was. Now, this obviously wasn't true on looking at the video, and indeed a couple of outlets hired video forensics experts who concluded this - but AP managed to find a non-expert who was merely a video editor and confirmed their belief by mistaking signs of frame rate conversion for the video being sped up, and the press ran with it.

Meanwhile, there was an a very convincing deceptively-edited video circulating on Twitter which clamed to show parts had been sped up by overlaying the White House version on the original - it was very vivid, with the overlay seeming to jump ahead in fast-moving parts. This was an illusion created by running the videos 7 frames or so out of sync the whole way through and abusing the fact the slight differences weren't noticable in slow-moving parts during normal playback. No-one noticed. Youtube fighter of misinformation Captain Disillusion even helped spread it and gave his approval.

My general reckoning is that Twitter would get much more praise for labelling the non-tampered video as misleadingly edited and endorsing the accuracy of the video that was misleadingly edited to make the other one appear that way, than the other way around.

Re: Twitter to label deepfakes and other deceptive media

#12
post #3

This seems like an insanely hard problem with many false positives/negatives. But of course the media hysteria against tech and fake news might eat it up and praise twitter. Nice PR move for non techies.

Deep fakes are a thing. Fake news are a thing. Not sure what's achieved by pointing out some fantasized "hysteria" of the media about it, especially when that bundles up everyone in the same basket, although some of these are actually relying on these methods to push their views.

Attempting to label these so people aren't manipulated by it is something that deserves praise.

It's not a free pass of course, it does seem insanely hard, and it better materializes into something concrete with a real impact that does solve the issues at hand.

Re: Twitter to label deepfakes and other deceptive media

#14
post #9
post #8

I have yet to see a deep fake that was passed of as real. Is there any major incidents of this happening that I'm not aware of?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctored-nancy-pelosi-video-hig...

That’s not a deep fake. If that’s deep fake, then simply slowing down a video gets qualified as a deep fake.

Re: Twitter to label deepfakes and other deceptive media

#15
post #13

1. how is this not a slippery slope? 2. have we completely given up on critical thinking and education? 3. free speech vs not so free speech. i guess we're choosing "not so free"?

1. How is allowing the unchecked proliferation of false and misleading media not also a slippery slope, and why is that never a concern?

2. False dichotomy - Twitter attempting to label deepfakes and deceptive media has no negative effect on critical thinking or education, just as Twitter not doing has no positive effect on either. Twitter is not setting education policy for any society or government, here.

3. There is no government or society in the world which does not place some limits on speech in some form, even the US has laws against terrorist threats, slander, libel, lying under oath, misleading labels on food and drugs, misleading contracts, etc ... demonstrating that one common and widely accepted basis for limiting speech is deception and misleading information.

Also, merely classifying data is not preventing its spread, and is not, therefore, a limit on free speech even in theory. If that were the case, then every tag on Twitter would also somehow be "not free speech."

Also, Twitter is a privately owned platform, not a government or a public square.

Re: Twitter to label deepfakes and other deceptive media

#16
post #15
post #13

1. how is this not a slippery slope? 2. have we completely given up on critical thinking and education? 3. free speech vs not so free speech. i guess we're choosing "not so free"?

1. How is allowing the unchecked proliferation of false and misleading media not also a slippery slope, and why is that never a concern? 2. False dichotomy - Twitter attempting to label deepfakes and deceptive media has no negative effect on critical thinking or education, just as Twitter not doing has no positive effect on either. Twitter is not setting education policy for any society or government, here. 3. There…

> 1. How is allowing the proliferation of false and misleading media not also a slippery slope, and why is that never a concern?

we have had this for the past 400 years (since the birth of the modern press). why do we need it now? how did you, for example, simply decide you can't rely on other people's good judgement? what triggered this change?

Re: Twitter to label deepfakes and other deceptive media

#17
post #3

This seems like an insanely hard problem with many false positives/negatives. But of course the media hysteria against tech and fake news might eat it up and praise twitter. Nice PR move for non techies.

Deep fakes are a thing. Fake news are a thing. Not sure what's achieved by pointing out some fantasized "hysteria" of the media about it, especially when that bundles up everyone in the same basket, although some of these are actually relying on these methods to push their views. Attempting to label these so people aren't manipulated by it is something that deserves praise. It's not a free pass of course, it does see…

> Attempting to label these so people aren't manipulated by it is something that deserves praise.

it's pretty incredible how we went from "give people the benefit of the doubt" to "people are manipulated".

Re: Twitter to label deepfakes and other deceptive media

#18
post #16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. How is allowing the unchecked proliferation of false and misleading media not also a slippery slope, and why is that never a concern? 2. False dichotomy - Twitter attempting to label deepfakes and deceptive media has no negative effect on critical thinking or education, just as Twitter not doing has no positive effect on either. Twitter is not setting education policy for any society or government, here. 3. There…

> 1. How is allowing the proliferation of false and misleading media not also a slippery slope, and why is that never a concern? we have had this for the past 400 years (since the birth of the modern press). why do we need it now? how did you, for example, simply decide you can't rely on other people's good judgement? what triggered this change?

>we have had this for the past 400 years (since the birth of the modern press). why do we need it now?

We've also had experts and arbiters of truth for 400 years. Why do we need to abandon the premise that truth has value in civil society?

>how did you, for example, simply decide you can't rely on other people's good judgement? what triggered this change?

I personally have never made any such decision.

Trust is unavoidable either way. Twitter wants people to trust their good judgement in determining what is and isn't a deepfake, fabricated of false information. If you choose not to trust Twitter, you inevitably choose to trust the source, or the community, or your own bias (created and fed from third party sources.) No one is able to independently and objectively verify every claim they encounter.

The only (as yet undetermined) relevant factor here is whether algorithms are any better at determining truthiness than the web zeitgeist. If so, then I see no harm done. If not, the feature will probably be abandoned.

I don't particularly buy into the implied third option that Twitter and other platforms will be using features like this to intentionally mislead the public in order to further some radical political agenda of misinformation and thought control.

Re: Twitter to label deepfakes and other deceptive media

#19
post #13

1. how is this not a slippery slope? 2. have we completely given up on critical thinking and education? 3. free speech vs not so free speech. i guess we're choosing "not so free"?

>3. free speech vs not so free speech. i guess we're choosing "not so free"?

Well, to be fair, it's all free speech.

The guy who uploaded the deep fake exercised his right to free expression to do so, and the private company that labeled it a deep fake also exercised their right to free expression. Technically speaking, this is an example of the radically open and unregulated nature of free speech in the private sector. Other people labeling your content as "lies" or whatever is a natural consequence of that radically open environment.

It would be "not so free" if the government sent people around to question you whenever you upload a deep fake. Like they do when people mouth off while in, say, a CounterStrike session, about what they're going to do to the other kids at school.

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