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The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

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Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#101

Post by brutal_chaos_ »

oblib wrote: post #6

I think the author's take on this is a bit heavy with hyperbole, but there's no doubt Iowa was a mess last night. My son was there working as volunteer, and so was his ex-girlfriend, who's still a close family friend. I was chatting with them both throughout the evening and into the wee hours this morning. They worked different locations in the Des Moines metro area and the results they reported to me were pretty clo…

> Whatever the case may be, the DNC is who ended up taking it on the chin.

This should fall on the IDP (Iowa Democratic Party) as they commissioned the app...

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#102

Post by csours »

bluGill wrote: post #68
generalpass wrote: post #43

Should Google or Apple take the app off the app store? Seems like a scam...

An app like this should not be on any app store ever. You want only pre-chosen people to have access to the app. It does no good for anyone else to have access to this and it can hurt. 4 years ago I had the Republican app on my phone. I was the backup reporter just in case the main reporter had problems. Since the main reporter used the app correctly I didn't use it, but I had access to it.

Access to install the app MUST not constitute Access to the system behind the app.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#103

Post by brutal_chaos_ »

faizshah wrote: post #28
tmpz22 wrote: post #14

This should really be getting more attention, here is an alternative breakdown: https://imgur.com/gallery/ycOC0HX . The jest of it is one of the most important institutions in the United States (the Democratic National Committee) uses a highly nepotistic and incompetent system for managing IT which leads to colossal failures in marketing, canvassing, and security. Not to mention massive PII violations as millions of…

So if we are interested in helping the DNC improve their software what do you think we should do? Is there a route for something like 18F for the DNC?

Your sentiment is highly commendable, I wish I could offer guidance. However, do note that the IDP (Iowa Democratic Party) had the app made, not the DNC.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#104

Post by scottlamb »

neonate wrote: post #35
marcell wrote: post #30

My coworker has an alternate theory that frankly makes a lot more sense than “the app broke.” The Iowa caucus is not a paper ballot. People stand in groups in a large multipurpose room and raise their hands for who they vote for. Depending on the viability threshold, people move to new groups and are recounted. The exact rules are complicated and the process is run by unpaid humans. Moreover, in 2020 everyone has sma…

I don't think that's a better theory. The process may be 'bad' but it has been that way, and worked, for a long time. As far as we know, the new ingredient was the app.

> The process may be 'bad' but it has been that way, and worked, for a long time.

The process has never worked. I attended a couple caucuses myself between becoming 17 [0] and leaving Iowa. I still hear about them from family. They have various flaws. The most severe one IMHO is that due to the time commitment, they only reflect the voice of die-hards and/or those with few responsibilities. That's true for choosing the candidates and even more so for choosing the platform.

However, I imagine you mean this specific failure mode (unable to produce an authoritative count within X hours for some smallish X) is new. AFAIK, that's correct.

I would love it if this failure inspires them to change to a standard primary process. Probably won't, though.

[0] iirc you can participate if you will be 18 by the general election.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#105

Post by 0xEFF »

war1025 wrote: post #59
nooron wrote: post #44

I started a company that was asked to write a proposal to make what became the app that failed last night. I declined because it was outside of our core skillset. You can read my prior comments or look at my profile to validate this. If you want my perspective as someone who started a Democratic software company, you should keep reading. This app emerged from a mandate to make the caucus more accessible and transpare…

I don't know whether I heard correctly or if the number was accurate, but I heard someone throw out $60k as the amount paid for the app development this morning on the radio. That sounds like a lot of money to a lay-person, but assuming $100/hr, which seems like at least a reasonable ballpark rate, that breaks down to 600 man-hours, or 15 man-weeks. That is a very tight deadline to turn out a critical app like this.…

60k is absurdly low. You get what you pay for.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#106

Post by jariel »

briandear wrote: post #65
jariel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper ballots with scanned results in the booth. No scan means redo your vote. That way you have a track record + instant results. Folks can take home the stub to ensure non-repudiation etc.. They can look up the serial number on the stub they take home to see for sure it was recorded. FYI we should also have basic ID requirements for voting. The arguments against it are kind of ridiculous, and federal or state ID sh…

[flagged]

No, not remotely like Stalin.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#107

Post by 3uclid »

sct202 wrote: post #83
3uclid wrote: post #63

Checked their LinkedIn and the employees who work there. The founder is non-technical and there are two developers: one who is a "back-end intern" and the other is a front-end developer (both are fresh from bootcamps). ...Yikes.

The CTO is a former Googler SWE.

Nice -- they market the company as "made by former Google and Apple engineers", but built the product with...an intern?

Lmao.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#108

Post by shevek_ »

sl1ck731 wrote: post #62
allovernow wrote: post #40

The owners and staffers at Shadow INC have a severe conflict of interest. The company is loaded with former Clinton staffers and the CEO sent a tweet in support of Buttigeig, who recently paid tens of thousands to the company. Other suspicious dealings are a premature victory announcement by Buttigeig's campaign and a leak of a picture of paper tallies which included a PIN allegedly used to login to the tally app. Lo…

Should a company's employees/CEO have to be apolitical? I'd be surprised if there is such a company where none of its employees are involved in politics in any way. Especially if its a company whose sole purpose is developing software for a political party.

It is not a controversial statement to say that an election shouldn't be run with closed software made by a private company with financial, personal, and professional ties to one of the candidates. If something like this happened elsewhere in the world the US would use it as pretext for intervention.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#109

Post by 0xEFF »

robomartin wrote: post #95
nooron wrote: post #44

I started a company that was asked to write a proposal to make what became the app that failed last night. I declined because it was outside of our core skillset. You can read my prior comments or look at my profile to validate this. If you want my perspective as someone who started a Democratic software company, you should keep reading. This app emerged from a mandate to make the caucus more accessible and transpare…

Please educate me on something. I fail to understand why "making custom software for " is something anyone would want to do in the context of owning and growing a real business. This seems fraught with all kinds of issues. First of all (and it seems I've been using this word a lot lately) this turns software development into a religion rather than a business with solid business strategy. The equivalent in other busin…

My dentist made me a custom night guard. Is he not owning and growing a real business?

It’s quite the leap you make from there to religion.

Re: The Shadow Inc. app that failed in Iowa last night

#110

Post by wenbin »

war1025 wrote: post #59
nooron wrote: post #44

I started a company that was asked to write a proposal to make what became the app that failed last night. I declined because it was outside of our core skillset. You can read my prior comments or look at my profile to validate this. If you want my perspective as someone who started a Democratic software company, you should keep reading. This app emerged from a mandate to make the caucus more accessible and transpare…

I don't know whether I heard correctly or if the number was accurate, but I heard someone throw out $60k as the amount paid for the app development this morning on the radio. That sounds like a lot of money to a lay-person, but assuming $100/hr, which seems like at least a reasonable ballpark rate, that breaks down to 600 man-hours, or 15 man-weeks. That is a very tight deadline to turn out a critical app like this.…

The two founders of Instagram spent $65k (out of $500k they raised) to launch the very first version of Instagram in 2010 [1].

[1] https://lnns.co/8zhgtOF0YCo

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