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Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

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Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#291

Post by falcolas »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #220
falcolas wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about just https://9to5google.com/2020/02/03/alphabet-q4-2019-earnings/ ? No amp required, under 1 second to display content. I will say that it's a bit beefy at 5mb total, though the AMP site loads the same amount.

You complained that it was hosted on Google specifically. I tested that Chrome specifically copies the canonical URL and not the location bar URL when I share that AMP page, which doesn't fit your narrative. Also, the reason the AMP page is faster is that it prerenders above the fold from a SERP, not due to total page weight.

AMP is, hosting aside, a problematic project when it comes to Google's business ethics.

And the differences in rendering speed were negligible, to my eyes. IIRC from the dev tools, it was about 1/10th of a second difference to get readable content.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#292

Post by marcinzm »

coldpie wrote: post #237
marcinzm wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still doesn't answer why should I donate to Mozilla the non-profit? What do they do with my donations? According to another post they don't use them to fund Firefox or presumably any project run by the corporation side. As I see it if I wanted my donations to go to political or other activism there's more direct and better organizations to donate to with less middle management involved.

> According to another post Respectfully, HN comments aren't a great primary source. Here are some places to start your research: https://donate.mozilla.org/en-US/faq/ https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/about/public-records/ https://assets.mozilla.net/annualreport/2018/mozilla-fdn-201... https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/

According to https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/ the donations go to:

* supporting a diverse group of fellows working on key internet issues [looking at them they all focus on advocacy and social issues rather than working on things like Firefox]

* connecting open Internet leaders at events like MozFest

* publishing critical research in the Internet Health Report

* rallying citizens around advocacy issues that connect the wellbeing of the Internet directly to everyday life.

Or in other words, exactly as the HN comment said, none of it goes to corporation projects but rather privacy and social advocacy.

edit: I'm guessing the Foundation actually takes money from the Corporation to fund itself since the financial statement seems to cover both, anyone know if that's the case?

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#293

Post by salawat »

thu2111 wrote: post #194
reaperducer wrote: post #46

I don't understand why Google and some other tech companies use their users as involuntary, unpaid guinea pigs. No consent. No opt-out. What's the motivation? Is it simple laziness because they don't want to deal with wetware? Is it afraid that if people knew what was happening they wouldn't be happy? Google has eighty brazillion employees it can test new features on.

Google employees are not a random sample of their user base, so such experiments would be meaningless. See the fiasco where they broke Terminal Services last year as an example of what can go wrong even when doing experiments on the whole user base. Also consider how to measure the usage of web features Google's own websites don't use, but are popular on e.g. intranets in Korea. A/B testing isn't bad, it's a good thi…

A/B testing as implemented in industry is -evokes emotional responses eerily similar to those evoked when gaslighting is noticed -uncompensated -inconsistent with any semblance of established research ethics -generally non-consensual -completely undermines trust

I'm not normally one to make a big deal about this sort of thing, but there is a reason research ethics exist. If one can't be trusted to even attempt to follow ethical research protocols, one damn well shouldn't be trusted with anything important.

Your user's time and information is not yours to share. Whether you bury it in the fine print or not.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#294

Post by dleslie »

alleyshack wrote: post #271
glyxbaer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I moved into IT almost 10-15 years ago, Google was one of the companies that I adored (in a kind of naive way, but nevertheless..). Working at that company has always been a dream of mine. They had the reputation for hiring the best of the best engineers, with great benefits and work culture. Meanwhile I'd hate to apply for them. Everything they do in terms of tracking, etc. has become so vile and almost evil th…

As an Xoogler, my experience is that one thing changed, and one thing didn't. The thing which changed is that Google operates on a much, much larger scale than anything imaginable back in the late 90s when they first started. In 1999, nobody had any inkling about the cloud and SaaS revolution that was about to come. Nobody knew that everything was about to move into web apps and cloud services, which permit and requi…

> They don't consider it a problem or a violation because they don't mind targeted ads, they don't mind giving up their data in exchange for services, and they don't (want to) understand why people who aren't them might object.

And worse, they never thought to ask. Most users never really had the opportunity to provide informed consent.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#296

Post by duxup »

csallen wrote: post #286
duxup wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" involuntary, unpaid guinea pigs. No consent. No opt-out" That sounds like all A/B testing...

"Scientists run tests on guinea pigs. A/B testers run tests on me. Therefore I am a guinea pig. Guinea pigs have no rights. Therefore A/B testers are taking away my rights." I've never been a fan of this particular type of logic and reasoning (or lack thereof).

Yeah I agree. A/B testing is generally ... innocuous.

The idea that such a pattern is as severe / bad as described I don't think makes sense.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#297

Post by kick »

coldpie wrote: post #260
kick wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect you a lot, but how is what Mozilla's doing in regards to that at all respectable? It's not "starving them of talent" to not increase Baker's pay as Mozilla is laying off employees? She's been there since (almost) the beginning, and the performance of Mozilla has gotten worse over the last decade.

I'm responding to the general complaint that executives at large non-profits are paid too much, and therefore the non-profit is not using money wisely, and so should not be donated to. There's a certain pool of people who are qualified to run companies of these sizes, and in order to attract that talent, you need to pay a competitive wage. The non-profit-ness of the company can be a factor, but like it or not, money…

In general I definitely agree with you, certainly.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#298

Post by robbrown451 »

c16 wrote: post #113
jcl wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, it looks like that's a test case -- it is not part of Chrome itself. They most likely just wanted an example of a third-party website, and could have used any non-Google site there.

Yes, But they tested Yahoo of all websites to make sure they don't send tracking data, and not an unrelated website like wikipedia or archive.org. The only non-google test case too I might add.

I've long seen it almost as a tradition to use yahoo for things like testing if the internet is working, e.g. "ping yahoo.com". I suspect this isn't much more than that.

Re: Google tracks individual users per Chrome installation ID

#300

Post by alleyshack »

dleslie wrote: post #294
alleyshack wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Xoogler, my experience is that one thing changed, and one thing didn't. The thing which changed is that Google operates on a much, much larger scale than anything imaginable back in the late 90s when they first started. In 1999, nobody had any inkling about the cloud and SaaS revolution that was about to come. Nobody knew that everything was about to move into web apps and cloud services, which permit and requi…

> They don't consider it a problem or a violation because they don't mind targeted ads, they don't mind giving up their data in exchange for services, and they don't (want to) understand why people who aren't them might object. And worse, they never thought to ask. Most users never really had the opportunity to provide informed consent.

Yep. "I think this way, therefore everyone else thinks this way," is an incredibly common human fallacy.
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