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Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

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Re: Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

#71

Post by davinic »

sildur wrote: post #65
crazygringo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody makes mistakes and nothing in the world is black and white. The only question is, is your cloud provider less likely to make mistakes with your data than you are? For most people, the answer is going to be orders of magnitude less likely.

For most people, self hosting their own data isn’t even an option. For the subset of privacy concerned people who have the technological knowledge to self host, making mistakes with their data is not “orders of magnitude less likely”.

Only because you're thinking as "self-hosting" to be setting up a server, etc. Before cloud-connected security cameras, every cam system owner was "self-hosting", even if that mean the cameras just recording to a local box.

Re: Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

#72

Post by jliptzin »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #67
Kaiyou wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just encrypt your data before putting it onto somebody else's computer a.k.a. the cloud.

And when the average user forgets their password?

Don’t be the average user.

Re: Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

#73

Post by RHSeeger »

crazygringo wrote: post #42
brenden2 wrote: post #11

The usual argument for using "cloud" over managing your own files/data is that it's very hard to safely manage your own data without making mistakes (data loss, etc). However, this is an example of how companies like Google also make mistakes. Furthermore, when Google/FB makes a mistake (like leaking your private data) they do it at a global scale. I offboarded myself from all of Google's services a while ago, but I…

Everybody makes mistakes and nothing in the world is black and white. The only question is, is your cloud provider less likely to make mistakes with your data than you are? For most people, the answer is going to be orders of magnitude less likely.

> The only question is, is your cloud provider less likely to make mistakes with your data than you are?

No, the second question, which is a multiplier of the first, is how catastrophic the mistakes can be. Google _can_ accidentally do much worse things with your data, but it probably much less likely to make mistakes with it in the first place.

Re: Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

#74

Post by mceachen »

sildur wrote: post #65
crazygringo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody makes mistakes and nothing in the world is black and white. The only question is, is your cloud provider less likely to make mistakes with your data than you are? For most people, the answer is going to be orders of magnitude less likely.

For most people, self hosting their own data isn’t even an option. For the subset of privacy concerned people who have the technological knowledge to self host, making mistakes with their data is not “orders of magnitude less likely”.

> For most people, self hosting their own data isn’t even an option.

I'm trying hard to invalidate this with PhotoStructure. My goal is to be installable and usable by even my least-computer-savvy family members.

Although there are desktop installers, users can move their library to a NAS, rPI, oDroid, NUC or a VM in the cloud--anything that can host 64-bit docker images--but only if they want to. Everything in your library works cross-platform because I didn't want to be tied down to any OS or hardware.

Re: Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

#75

Post by cmcd »

crazygringo wrote: post #42
brenden2 wrote: post #11

The usual argument for using "cloud" over managing your own files/data is that it's very hard to safely manage your own data without making mistakes (data loss, etc). However, this is an example of how companies like Google also make mistakes. Furthermore, when Google/FB makes a mistake (like leaking your private data) they do it at a global scale. I offboarded myself from all of Google's services a while ago, but I…

Everybody makes mistakes and nothing in the world is black and white. The only question is, is your cloud provider less likely to make mistakes with your data than you are? For most people, the answer is going to be orders of magnitude less likely.

The other question is, what is your cloud provider going to intentionally do with your data without your consent.

Re: Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

#76

Post by climb_stealth »

mceachen wrote: post #74
sildur wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most people, self hosting their own data isn’t even an option. For the subset of privacy concerned people who have the technological knowledge to self host, making mistakes with their data is not “orders of magnitude less likely”.

> For most people, self hosting their own data isn’t even an option. I'm trying hard to invalidate this with PhotoStructure. My goal is to be installable and usable by even my least-computer-savvy family members. Although there are desktop installers, users can move their library to a NAS, rPI, oDroid, NUC or a VM in the cloud--anything that can host 64-bit docker images--but only if they want to. Everything in your…

How are photos added to the library? I had a quick look through the PhotoStructure website and it looks interesting, but I haven't seen this answered. For me the appeal of Google Photos is that all my phone's photos get uploaded when I'm on wifi.

PS: There's an image that can't be loaded on the confirmation page when registering for email updates.

Re: Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

#77

Post by dyingkneepad »

thedance wrote: post #52
brenden2 wrote: post #11

The usual argument for using "cloud" over managing your own files/data is that it's very hard to safely manage your own data without making mistakes (data loss, etc). However, this is an example of how companies like Google also make mistakes. Furthermore, when Google/FB makes a mistake (like leaking your private data) they do it at a global scale. I offboarded myself from all of Google's services a while ago, but I…

I get an absolutely endless parade of other people's data to my gmail account. Doctors send me MRI scans. Bankers send me foreclosure notices. Airlines send me tickets. Undertakers send me condolences. The preponderance of evidence suggests that relying on individual vigilance on a large scale does not work as well as relying on the vigilance of large organizations.

Your experience is far different than mine. In 15 years I only got probably like 2 accidental emails.

Is your email something like john@gmail.com?

Re: Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

#78

Post by coliveira »

Kaiyou wrote: post #54
crazygringo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everybody makes mistakes and nothing in the world is black and white. The only question is, is your cloud provider less likely to make mistakes with your data than you are? For most people, the answer is going to be orders of magnitude less likely.

Just encrypt your data before putting it onto somebody else's computer a.k.a. the cloud.

Exactly, the solution of the problem is to only give encrypted data to cloud companies. This way they cannot collect any additional information from your data.

Re: Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

#79

Post by cyphar »

kop316 wrote: post #68
cyphar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only problem is that the server is written in PHP, which has had a history of bad RCE bugs (and an RCE bug in this context means all your personal data is accessible). In addition, NextCloud has had several pretty bad bugs related to authentication (such as bypassing 2FA, by pressing "cancel"). Don't get me wrong, I still use NextCloud, but you can only access my instance through a VPN (or by being on my home net…

Do you recall which RCE bug and when? I have been using it for 4 years, and I recall one in the past year, but Nextcloud was loud and clear on making sure you had to upgrade. It was even nicer with auto updating on Debian, I didn't have to do anything to get my server patched (I just went in to confirm it was patched).

[1] shows 143 code execution CVEs in the past 20 years. Now, to be fair, this site has been known to misclassify bugs in the past and it's likely that most of those bugs don't apply to NextCloud or weren't even RCEs.

However it's hardly unheard of for PHP to have RCEs. Usually the RCEs are in programs written in PHP, but PHP itself is hardly blameless. For comparison, Python has had 5-10 code execution CVEs in the past 10 years.

And again, I'm not bashing PHP or NextCloud here. I would probably also firewall NextCloud if it was written in Python. The only thing protecting your data from being public is a single service that you are running and gated by a basic login form -- I personally feel much safer with it behind a WireGuard VPN.

[1]: https://www.cvedetails.com/product/128/PHP-PHP.html?vendor_i...

Re: Some Google Photos videos in backups were sent to strangers in November

#80

Post by tantalor »

brenden2 wrote: post #11

The usual argument for using "cloud" over managing your own files/data is that it's very hard to safely manage your own data without making mistakes (data loss, etc). However, this is an example of how companies like Google also make mistakes. Furthermore, when Google/FB makes a mistake (like leaking your private data) they do it at a global scale. I offboarded myself from all of Google's services a while ago, but I…

It's not "dead" if everybody but you still uses it.
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