When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office • Hacker News Board

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#21

Post by lukeqsee » Tue, Feb 04, 2020, 9:25 AM UTC

PappaPatat wrote: post #13

Symbiote wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Were you speaking English? In Denmark, I'm much more likely to have the card payment machine prompt for a tip if the waiter thinks the group is foreign. Otherwise, they often press "Nej" themselves.

Swiss here: can relate. Specifically American tourists get confused if there is no tip possibility offered with carding machines.

As an American moving to Switzerland, I knew tipping was uncommon, so initially, I didn’t. Now I’ve settled on the “round up” method to save everyone counting coins (round up to the next nice number, so no more than 2-5CHF).

Am I doing it wrong?

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#22

Post by zweep » Tue, Feb 04, 2020, 9:27 AM UTC

Beautiful. And, let’s give some honest thought about whether if you added a bunch of people from low-trust societies to the mix at the office, whether such behaviors would endure.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#23

Post by asdko13roasi » Tue, Feb 04, 2020, 9:27 AM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #7

My first time in Finland was last May (incidentally to give a talk at Smartly in the very office featured in the photo). I love Finland. You can tell from the moment you arrive that the entire country cares about the welfare of everyone there. It started when we got on the train from the airport. We were told that not only do kids ride public transit for free, but anyone pushing their stroller does too. Talk about su…

>what I didn't see anywhere were homeless people or beggars

Romanian beggars are a common sight during warmer months.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#24

Post by versale » Tue, Feb 04, 2020, 9:31 AM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #9

versale wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I was offered to give a tip at "O'Leary's" in the IsoOmena mall (Espoo) when paying the bill with my Visa Electron. It felt awkward and I've been avoiding the place since then.

Were you speaking English? In Denmark, I'm much more likely to have the card payment machine prompt for a tip if the waiter thinks the group is foreign. Otherwise, they often press "Nej" themselves.

Yes, my Finnish is practically non-existent. That might explain though :)

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#25

Post by badpun » Tue, Feb 04, 2020, 9:32 AM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #20

jedberg wrote: post #7

My first time in Finland was last May (incidentally to give a talk at Smartly in the very office featured in the photo). I love Finland. You can tell from the moment you arrive that the entire country cares about the welfare of everyone there. It started when we got on the train from the airport. We were told that not only do kids ride public transit for free, but anyone pushing their stroller does too. Talk about su…

Yet nearly identical risk percentage of poverty as the US: https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/finland/usa?sc=... Maybe the key difference is that poverty is better hidden in Finland with more available shelters?

I'm sceptical about the concept of poverty as defined by the economists. They seem to define poverty as being unable to live a consumerist lifestyle, and not being genuinely poor. In the US, the poverty threshold for a single person is about $1000 per month. However, for that amount of money, I think you can get shelter, food, clothing and live in material comfort (or at least lack of evident discomfort) - you're clothed, fed, warm, dry and have a safe place to rest and sleep. Is that what poverty looks like?

It looks like, to economists, poverty is more about being unable to have a bigger place for yourself, newish car, newish electronics, rich variety in food etc. - but it's hardly end of the world if people don't have those things, so why should the public care?

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#26

Post by mxcrossb » Tue, Feb 04, 2020, 9:35 AM UTC

paganel wrote: post #14

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #8

Am I the only one who finds it awkward? I mean, if this was €100, then maybe, but this is €5, I leave this kind of money around my desk regularly and nobody cares - why on Earth would you bother posting this kind of stuff on social media?

Because many people wrongly assume that those people who happen to be lower paid (in this case, a cleaner) also have higher chances of being “thieves” or of having lower moral standards, and as such it comes as a surprise to them when they find out that cleaners (for this example) are just like everybody else. I find it incredible classist, but I don’t think that’s anything much that can be done, this attitude is too…

It’s interesting that the point of the article seems to be “look how trusting Finnish people are of others”, and yet the take away from the story might be “Finnish people were surprised by the trustworthy behavior of a cleaner”

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#27

Post by vhakulinen » Tue, Feb 04, 2020, 9:42 AM UTC

versale wrote: post #5

systemtest wrote: post #2

> I guess this is your tip now. You deserve it! Found the American. Just as a heads up. We don't tip the cleaner. Or anyone else. And while Finland doesn't have minimum wage, collective agreements specify minimum pay rates so the cleaner will always be paid a liveable wage.

Actually I was offered to give a tip at "O'Leary's" in the IsoOmena mall (Espoo) when paying the bill with my Visa Electron. It felt awkward and I've been avoiding the place since then.

More and more places are "offering to give a tip" at least in Helsinki when paying by card. The machine asks if you want to give some or not.

Its... weird.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#28

Post by tenant » Tue, Feb 04, 2020, 9:42 AM UTC

zweep wrote: post #22

Beautiful. And, let’s give some honest thought about whether if you added a bunch of people from low-trust societies to the mix at the office, whether such behaviors would endure.

Your comment prompts images of minefields and parapets in my mind

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#29

Post by nightfly » Tue, Feb 04, 2020, 9:47 AM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #20

jedberg wrote: post #7

My first time in Finland was last May (incidentally to give a talk at Smartly in the very office featured in the photo). I love Finland. You can tell from the moment you arrive that the entire country cares about the welfare of everyone there. It started when we got on the train from the airport. We were told that not only do kids ride public transit for free, but anyone pushing their stroller does too. Talk about su…

Yet nearly identical risk percentage of poverty as the US: https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/finland/usa?sc=... Maybe the key difference is that poverty is better hidden in Finland with more available shelters?

Lots of American poverty is hidden too. I'm from rural Oregon and there are tons of people that live on BLM land outside of city limits.

Re: When a cleaner finds 5 euros at a Finnish office

#30

Post by _y5hn » Tue, Feb 04, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

lukeqsee wrote: post #21

PappaPatat wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss here: can relate. Specifically American tourists get confused if there is no tip possibility offered with carding machines.

As an American moving to Switzerland, I knew tipping was uncommon, so initially, I didn’t. Now I’ve settled on the “round up” method to save everyone counting coins (round up to the next nice number, so no more than 2-5CHF). Am I doing it wrong?

No. Tipping is not a source of income in most of Europe. More places are even distributing the money or it may go to owner.