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Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

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Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#381

Post by spookthesunset »

jodrellblank wrote: post #250
spookthesunset wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> for some reason often believed by otherwise quite smart people I don't understand why so many smart "tech people" fall for the hype. Maybe it is because "machine learning" is just abstract enough that even the most jaded developer thinks they can treat it like a black box where if you pour enough videos, photos and LIDAR readings for training into the top it will somehow spit out a fully autonomous self driving car…

The way you suggest the future of automotive transport rests on a fast food chain drive through suggests a kind of astroturfing social media advert. If burgers were that important, the burger company would partner with the self driving car company and find a way. None of those things are physically complex - the car will be able to see or lidar if a space is big enough for it to park in, pulling over to pick up a fri…

> None of those things are physically complex

I don't care about how physically complex something is. You didn't tell me how I'd tell the self driving car which spot to park in or which person on the corner is my friend. If you think this detail is minor, trivial or doesn't matter.... you are sadly mistaken.

> If burgers were that important, the burger company would partner with the self driving car company and find a way.

So you are telling me your $70,000 self driving car can't take me through one of the hundreds of thousands of drive thru's out there? That sounds pretty shitty.

> You don't choose the parking spot anymore than you chose the lane or the highway exit

You are telling me that this self-driving taxi will just stop at whatever place it feels like? How will I tell it precisely where to let me out? Remember it is pouring down rain / I am physically disabled and cannot walk very far / I am not entirely sure where I need to be dropped off until I get there.

So seriously, how will I command this self-driving car? Nobody seems to be able to answer this or even thought about it in any amount of detail at all. Probably because we are so far away from an actual self driving car that a realistic answer doesn't really matter at all.

And that is the problem with self-driving hype. Every time you ask about a specific detail it gets hand waved away as not important or some kind of edge case that doesn't matter. Guess what... edge cases matter. Your edge case is my important case. You add up all these edge cases that "don't matter" and you've excluded almost your entire market.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#383

Post by tensor »

frosted-flakes wrote: post #278
ggreer wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that asking for too much? Most humans can't drive safely in blizzards. And unlike self-driving cars, many humans are overconfident in their abilities. If a self-driving car recognizes dangerous conditions (poor visibility, malfunctioning sensors, etc), it can simply stop. It seems as long as these machines are safer on average than humans, they're worth deploying.

> Most humans can't drive safely in blizzards. Sure they can. During snow squalls, accident rates obviously go up (especially if the roads are icy or if it's the first one of the season), but most drivers are good at assesing risk and take appropriate actions. Importantly, they have the ability to decide that it's worth the risk to go out on the roads to pick up Sally from daycare (for example). In any case, if the c…

Your account of human drivers is hilarious utopian. I've driving in horrible conditions, I've watched people driving too fast and later having their car wrapped around the divider barrier, I've watched people get stuck on a residential street and end up in the ditch, then begging for someone else to go pick up their Sally.

People are awful in these conditions and exercise incredibly poor risk decisions.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#384

Post by cultus »

bananabreakfast wrote: post #369
donkeyd wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then consider the lower reaction times of machines Meanwhile, Teslas run into the backs of car carriers because they only recognise the car it's carrying and not the truck bed extending behind it. It might react faster, but it needs to identify the danger first and up until now, it's much worse at that in many situations. Yes, you're right, once it's safer, it's safer. That makes your statements just as vacuous as…

Don't fear monger. "Teslas" do not "run into the backs of car carriers". I don't know where you are repeating that from, because you've clearly never driven one, but the core concept of autopilot is that the human should step in whenever a situation is confusing and/or dangerous. If the car does not recognize a situation it will always alert the driver to take over.

You are factually wrong. The autopilot has even swerved into gore points, causing fatal wrecks.

The parent poster was referencing this, which I found immediately using Google:

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1231834/tesla-mode...

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#385

Post by anchpop »

Ntrails wrote: post #240
scarejunba wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is some evidence. For instance, Tesla drivers report the car stopping before they can perceive an accident about to take place. An example is the first ten seconds of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APnN2mClkmk These vehicles have a superior sensor system to us. Our processing is better but sometimes their superior sensors are better.

Sure, and as soon as I can sit facing the other way and not be responsible for the cars fuck ups that's fine. Until then semi autonomy can fuck right off. I'd rather trust myself 100% of the time than a machine 99% of the time.

Sure, that's your decision. I'd rather have the car and I work together to prevent accidents, or let the car take over at low speeds

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#386

Post by grecy »

heavyset_go wrote: post #160
krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans, and there is no evidence that this generation of machine learning will be able to tackle this problem sufficiently. All signs point to driving requiring an understanding of what's going on around you, which this generation of ML does not provide. On the other hand, there is a lot of hype and promises being made without the results to back them…

> There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans

People said that about computers when it came to basic computations.

They said it about computers when it came to landing on the moon.

They said it about computers when it came to electronic tax returns, digital currencies, music, movies, video games and everything else in the history of the world that computers once couldn't do, but now do with ease, and much much more accurately and faster than the old way of doing whatever it is.

With sub-millisecond reaction times and eight cameras and radar instead of only two eyes, it's blatantly obvious computers will be better drivers than humans.

It's just a question of when.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#387

Post by tensor »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #311
nothrabannosir wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it enough if it recognises the limits of its own capability and safely asks you to take over?

No, actually it is not. It basically throws the operator into the worst possible conditions. Remember that the whole point of self driving cars is to eliminate the human driver. A driver who doesn’t drive is not capable of taking over from a machine which just gave up on recognizing what’s happening due to the severe weather. An example from my own backyard. My car is equipped only with ACC and lane assist. I already…

Computers have already been judging the conditions you cite better than humans for a long time. Your car is equipped with anti-slip systems that do a far better job both controlling the car in bad conditions and recognizing those conditions than you can.

Frankly, I'd trust a computer over the average human any day, given the horrible judgement I've seen most people exercise on the roads.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#388

Post by astrodust »

vincent-toups wrote: post #372
krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

I don't think anyone is against self driving cars if you assume they will work. Its whether they will work and what happens when they screw up that is the pertinent issue.

Until they run over someone important and not just some grandmother in Arizona will the industry realize what they're doing here?

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#389

Post by slavik81 »

NobodyNada wrote: post #239
occamrazor wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self driving cars killed one pedestrian in 10 million miles driven, about an order of magnitude worse than humans

But that’s a sample size of one, so we can’t really draw any meaningful conclusions from that data. (Also the safety driver was watching Netflix on her phone; it could be argued that the vehicle was not production-ready and not expected or intended to be able to handle every situation.)

Let's say everyone replaced their current cars with self-driving vehicles and they never killed anyone ever again. If normal vehicle usage continued and fifty years passed without a single traffic death, your claim suggests we'd still be unable to say if self-driving cars were safer, as it would still be a sample size of one.

I don't think your use of statistics is correct.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#390

Post by shaklee3 »

eshyong wrote: post #380
shaklee3 wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't invalidate the numbers if they were in ideal conditions, but it certainly means you cannot compare them to regular human drivers. That 500k number is the average from all kinds of different driving conditions. You would have to find a set of data where the humans also only drove in ideal conditions and see if the rate is any worse. I agree with the original poster and that there's not enough evidence to sa…

I think you meant "rate"...

Ugh, speech to text. Thanks for finding that in time.
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