Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

tesla.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 658 posts

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#281

Post by kickopotomus »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #253
kickopotomus wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same nerve conduction latency exists for your arms. The computer will beat you every time.

It's a shorter distance.

The distance is beside the point. The amount of time it takes for your brain to parse visual stimuli, then propagate a signal to your arms, and finally for the muscles in your arm to contract will be much slower than a computer parsing a sequence of images and then actuating the steering column. The computer is faster both at understanding it needs to respond and at signaling driving systems to respond.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#282

Post by GaryNumanVevo »

scarejunba wrote: post #243
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would much rather we invest billions into existing public transit solutions as a community. A light weight electric train doesn't need advanced LIDAR + AI to navigate, it can transport 100x people than a single car.

Well, that depends on what problem you're solving. Self-driving vehicles aren't solving mass transportation. They're solving ubiquitous personal transportation. They may also solve mass transport by being cheap, ubiquitous, and by performing an end-run around the piles of local regulation that restrict mass transit.

Self-driving is largely a reaction to the single-person-single-car scale problem. When you're trying to transport millions of people on a weekday, cars will never be able to meet demand. Look at China trying to vertically scale their highways resulting in 40-lane wide highways and multi-day traffic jams.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#283

Post by the8472 »

blattimwind wrote: post #273
the8472 wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not at all. Self-driving cars cannot yet safely navigate complex or unusual scenarios. That's assuming accidents are caused by complex and unusual scenarios instead of humans being inattentive during routine tasks. If machines fail at complex tasks but fail safely then that's not an argument against self-driving cars being safe, it's only one about their limited usefulness.

> If machines fail at complex tasks but fail safely then that's not an argument against self-driving cars being safe, it's only one about their limited usefulness. They don't, not at the moment. The software detects the situation is outside its capability space and says "jesus, take the wheel!". For all practical intents and purposes the only reasonable way to interpret the current self-driving car statistics is to t…

I wonder how much of that fail safe difficulty is to blame on humans too. The car can't just slow down on a highway due to the reaction time of other drivers after all.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#284

Post by blattimwind »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #269
cultus wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. Self-driving cars cannot yet safely navigate complex or unusual scenarios. The human backups in test cars still have to take over with good regularity. That's not something you'd see if it were anywhere close to ready. Even with all their data, there aren't enough training examples of every situation. Deep learning models also have a tendency to be pathologically wrong in rare but completely unpredictable…

Point taken. However if you a look at statistics regarding the leading cause of accidents in the US, for example by going to https://www.after-car-accidents.com/car-accident-causes.html It seems that most accidents are caused by human error and humans being distracted or under the influence of a substance. Weather and complex situations would only rank at the bottom of the list and therefore could be considered a YAG…

> Weather and complex situations would only rank at the bottom of the list and therefore could be considered a YAGNI problem.

This is a logical fallacy. You are inferring from a comparatively low incident rate that the condition must also be rare, which is not a reasonable conclusion to make.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#285

Post by plexicle »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #282
scarejunba wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that depends on what problem you're solving. Self-driving vehicles aren't solving mass transportation. They're solving ubiquitous personal transportation. They may also solve mass transport by being cheap, ubiquitous, and by performing an end-run around the piles of local regulation that restrict mass transit.

Self-driving is largely a reaction to the single-person-single-car scale problem. When you're trying to transport millions of people on a weekday, cars will never be able to meet demand. Look at China trying to vertically scale their highways resulting in 40-lane wide highways and multi-day traffic jams.

"Self-driving is largely a reaction to the single-person-single-car scale problem."

What in the world? No it is not.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#286

Post by bdamm »

kodablah wrote: post #134
dx87 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The car stopping if another car goes before it brings up another issue. If self driving cars start showing up on the road and are recognizable, you'd be able to "bully" the self driving cars since you know it'll always give right away. Imagine being stuck on an on-ramp behind a car that is programmed with infinite patience and extreme risk aversion; you could be sitting there quite a while.

That's not the real issue, that's just the initial domino. The real issue is how self-driving companies will combat that. They'll surely want to record film at all times and have a pipeline to law enforcement to curb suspected bullies. It's often the over-correcting solution that becomes the bigger problem. There are analogues in other human-robot interactions.

Waymo resolved this early on by encoding the human resolution into the action. Stopping as required by law, then moving forward slowly until the next action is more clear.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#287

Post by blattimwind »

seltzered_ wrote: post #194
occamrazor wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self driving cars killed one pedestrian in 10 million miles driven, about an order of magnitude worse than humans

Is that data on self driving cars or assisted driving? I think disengagement statistics also need to be factored in.

That's the Uber "Level 3" accident.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#288

Post by krona »

the8472 wrote: post #178
heavyset_go wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans, and there is no evidence that this generation of machine learning will be able to tackle this problem sufficiently. All signs point to driving requiring an understanding of what's going on around you, which this generation of ML does not provide. On the other hand, there is a lot of hype and promises being made without the results to back them…

> There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans That's a vacuous statement. Evidence would be a deployed self-driving fleet. At which point it would be mission accomplished and we wouldn't be discussing this. Now if you want theoretical considerations instead of evidence, then consider the lower reaction times of machines.

Now if you want theoretical considerations instead of evidence, then consider the lower reaction times of machines.

Reacting quickly except in emergencies is almost always worse and more likely to cause an accident in an environment consisting mostly of human drivers.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#289

Post by xkjkls »

ArtWomb wrote: post #7

I believe this was released as part of Tesla's Autopilot hiring announcement. More details here: https://www.tesla.com/autopilotAI Definitely someone's dream job ;) I particularly like the applicant query: "Tell us, what extraordinary work you have done?"

Honestly, I don't know how often that question ever warrants good responses. From my experience, most hiring comes from interviewing people who resumes show they're pretty obviously qualified, rather than questions like this from the beginning.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#290

Post by jamestimmins »

daniel2x wrote: post #101
jamestimmins wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this is ridiculous, but is it feasible that Tesla plans to use the SpaceX Starlink satellites to offload data for processing remotely?

Have you ever filled out a Captcha identifying roadsigns?

I'm not sure I follow? I'm just asking whether it's possible that the underlying processing could take place in a remote server, rather than an onboard computer in the car.
Post reply on HN