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Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

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Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#151

Post by xkjkls »

krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

I think it is much less that people are opposed to self-driving cars as a concept, just that they are skeptical of their current efficacy, and even more skeptical of what many of the current competitors in the field self-report their efficacy is. I for one am skeptical of many current claims that self-driving cars are eminent, and would like a greater regulatory setup to confirm that self-driving is in fact as safe to safer than human driving, and in what instances that is not true. In order to prove that to a statistical significance, you are going to need many many miles, which we should force companies to do in the effort of being cautious.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#152

Post by optimiz3 »

winternett wrote: post #77
baddox wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The system isn't AI based... It's currently based on static programming. This is why a development team would have to think of every possible scenario that could happen on roads to make self driving cars really work. I'm not really sure what this dichotomy is that you're describing. It certainly looks like they're using computer vision to detect the bounding boxes of cars, and the field of computer vision is widely…

You replied to the 4 scenarios I posted, but forgot the thousands of others left while you missed my point. They were rhetorical to illustrate that nothing yet can replace a trained, experienced, and attentive driver effectively yet. There are no simple answers to the above questions, but if a driver causes the accident, they are accountable. Companies want to launch this tech but not own accountability for accidents…

> You replied to the 4 scenarios I posted, but forgot the thousands of others left while you missed my point.

    try
    {
      while (true)
      {
         if (IsScenarioOutsideOfUnderstanding())
         {
            throw NotUnderstoodException()
         }
      }
    }
    catch (NotUnderstoodException)
    {
        SlowDownAndStopLikeAnyoneElseWould();
    }

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#153

Post by baq »

lexpar wrote: post #107
damon_c wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A neural network needs to be taught this and then all cars with that training will respond correctly forever. Every individual human would need to learn this separately from experience, which would require far more soccer balls (and children).

By "taught this" do you mean kill a kid?

Run this scenario in a thousand variants in sims.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#154

Post by axguscbklp »

krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

I'm not against it, I just think that it requires AGI and humanity is nowhere close to developing AGI. I think that AGI is somewhere between "50 years away" and "will never be developed by humans".

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#155

Post by interlocutor »

Bedon292 wrote: post #103
thedance wrote: post #30

I wonder why they would let the public see this. To the critical eye it looks like it barely works. It loses its mind right at the beginning, around 0:06-0:07, veers to the right for no reason and then rolls through a stop sign without stopping. It spends the rest of the video hunting left and right like a drunk.

Most of what is happening on that video appears to be a human controlling the vehicle, the overlay is just what the computer sees. In current public releases autopilot only warns you that it thinks you are going to run a red light / stop sign. And it is up for the human driver to actually stop. So, unless its on some beta release it was probably a human that rolled through it.

> warns you that it thinks you are going to run a red light / stop sign

I need this feature, and I would prefer this to full autonomous driving.

A computer that warns you when you're about to make a mistake is achievable today and will increase safety for everyone.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#156

Post by ctdonath »

krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

When the alleged dangers are scary/obvious, and the benefits hard to comprehend, easy to oppose.

I remember when credit cards, caller ID, online shopping, tax software, etc were all new. Each was loudly denounced as evil for various reasons; eventually the benefits became so obvious that we all now use those techs with little concern - even though many/most of the concerns were warranted. Just became too convenient to use them.

Self-driving will be the same. Scary concept to hurtle down the road completely & existentially subject to a machine built of (per A.C.Clarke) pure magic. Once in one, and seeing how smoothly & smartly it transports you, people will quickly embrace self-driving cars ... especially when they discover how too darned convenient it is to use them.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." And self-driving neural-net cars, to most, are flat-out magic.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#157

Post by milesward »

xkjkls wrote: post #151
krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

I think it is much less that people are opposed to self-driving cars as a concept, just that they are skeptical of their current efficacy, and even more skeptical of what many of the current competitors in the field self-report their efficacy is. I for one am skeptical of many current claims that self-driving cars are eminent, and would like a greater regulatory setup to confirm that self-driving is in fact as safe t…

It's that people think it will work as good as their phone, which, well, does goofy stuff every once-in-a-while. Meatspace is harder.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#159

Post by gimmeThaBeet »

I kind of giggle because the jittery-ness of some of the graphics makes it like I'm watching some robot version of Home Movies or Dr Katz.

I bring that up because my hypothetical personal questions working on a system like this is 'smooth' decision making. Objects, lines, are jittery and falling in and out of recognition, but the actual control inputs to the car are smooth.

I know, good conditions and all that, but I always find it quite remarkable watching any sort of automaton make relatively fuzzy decisions. I'm very curious to know more about how this system 'thinks' about the things it 'sees'.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#160

Post by heavyset_go »

krm01 wrote: post #140

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer. The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it…

There's no evidence that computers are any better at driving than humans, and there is no evidence that this generation of machine learning will be able to tackle this problem sufficiently. All signs point to driving requiring an understanding of what's going on around you, which this generation of ML does not provide.

On the other hand, there is a lot of hype and promises being made without the results to back them up.

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