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Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

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Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#131

Post by triska »

marnett wrote: post #125
triska wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an interesting and important theorem from control theory that is relevant for this situation. In a paper from 1984, Leslie Lamport has called it Buridan's Principle and phrased it as follows: “ A discrete decision based upon an input having a continuous range of values cannot be made within a bounded length of time. ” The paper is available from: http://lamport.azurewebsites.net/pubs/buridan.pdf It shows tha…

thanks for sharing this - this is fascinating. Admittedly I have never been exposed to Control Theory before, so I see a rabbit hole in my future.

Essentials of Control Techniques and Theory by John Billingsley is a book with many superb examples.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#132

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

modeless wrote: post #16
willvarfar wrote: post #4

Which sensor has primacy? radar, lidar or camera? I recall it mentioned somewhere that, after a well publicized tragedy hitting the side of a white truck on a bright day, Tesla was moving to radar? And yet a lot of the cues this awesome video shows seems to be camera-based line detection etc?

Tesla doesn't use lidar. They have always used radar, but radar can't always tell the difference between a stationary metal sign near/over the road and a stalled car in the middle of the lane, so for stationary objects they need the cameras. This is why every adaptive cruise control system (not just Tesla's) has a warning that it may not detect stationary objects. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/06/why-emergency-br…

Tesla has a whitelist of problematic stationary objects. Pray you don't ever get into an accident with a Tesla vehicle at those places.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#133

Post by spookthesunset »

Shivetya wrote: post #121
ArtWomb wrote: post #7

I believe this was released as part of Tesla's Autopilot hiring announcement. More details here: https://www.tesla.com/autopilotAI Definitely someone's dream job ;) I particularly like the applicant query: "Tell us, what extraordinary work you have done?"

while an interesting video I really want to see the entire front arc stitched together. How is it judging it is safe to go through the stop sign? Situations like that fascinate me the most. One issue not discussed enough is all this push for automation really needs road marking guidelines pushed down from the Federal level. While the feds can hold domain over the interstate system or roads it can be maddening the dif…

> One issue not discussed enough is all this push for automation really needs road marking guidelines pushed down from the Federal level

Who will fund that in a way that ensures a timely rollout (as in "sometime this century")? Who will pay to maintain it?

Unfortunately, self driving cars are just gonna have to deal with infrastructure as-built.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#134

Post by kodablah »

dx87 wrote: post #97
calebegg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proper rules[1] of a 4 way stop are probably pretty straightforward to encode, and probably easier for a computer to apply than a human, but the real issue is that you can't trust the other drivers (or AIs) to understand/follow them consistently. So the interesting part is how these kinds of systems can almost instantly react when another driver starts to go, and let them go. In NYC, where I live now, the de fact…

The car stopping if another car goes before it brings up another issue. If self driving cars start showing up on the road and are recognizable, you'd be able to "bully" the self driving cars since you know it'll always give right away. Imagine being stuck on an on-ramp behind a car that is programmed with infinite patience and extreme risk aversion; you could be sitting there quite a while.

That's not the real issue, that's just the initial domino. The real issue is how self-driving companies will combat that. They'll surely want to record film at all times and have a pipeline to law enforcement to curb suspected bullies. It's often the over-correcting solution that becomes the bigger problem. There are analogues in other human-robot interactions.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#135

Post by phkahler »

Shivetya wrote: post #121
ArtWomb wrote: post #7

I believe this was released as part of Tesla's Autopilot hiring announcement. More details here: https://www.tesla.com/autopilotAI Definitely someone's dream job ;) I particularly like the applicant query: "Tell us, what extraordinary work you have done?"

while an interesting video I really want to see the entire front arc stitched together. How is it judging it is safe to go through the stop sign? Situations like that fascinate me the most. One issue not discussed enough is all this push for automation really needs road marking guidelines pushed down from the Federal level. While the feds can hold domain over the interstate system or roads it can be maddening the dif…

>> One issue not discussed enough is all this push for automation really needs road marking guidelines pushed down from the Federal level.

That would be a mistake. You don't take a safety critical system and rely on a nationwide beauracracy getting all the details right to make it safe, or even effective. We've had the discussion here before, and the only way for full level 5 autonomy is a general AI capable of most everything a human is. Until people realize that it will be an endless stream of "we just need to fix these corner cases" or put more constraints on the physical world because the cars aren't smart enough.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#136

Post by bepvte »

ipunchghosts wrote: post #122

The amount of jitter in the estimates makes me nervous, especially when the model thinks something is present in one frame and not there in the next.

This is a problem even in production autopilot in Teslas. When stopped at a stop light, you can see cars "dancing" and rotating randomly in a jittery fashion. Today during an auto lane change, the system blinked a truck from two lanes across in and out of my target lane, causing the car to cancel going into an empty lane after quarter ways entering it, twice.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#137

Post by Seenso »

nickik wrote: post #120
Traster wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two issues, first: I thought fully autonomous driving was meant to be done by now? Second, don't Tesla & SpaceX have a reputation for being a terrible place to work, with Musk expecting everyone to be working as hard (or harder) than him, and firing people in weird and capricious ways.

Tesla and SpaceX, specially SpaceX has been rated very highly in some rating I have seen. But there is a reputation that it is a lot of work specially in crunch time.

>> Tesla & SpaceX have a reputation for being a terrible place to work, with Musk expecting everyone to be working as hard (or harder) than him, and firing people in weird and capricious ways.

> specially SpaceX has been rated very highly in some rating I have seen.

IIRC, SpaceX has a COO who handles much of the day-to-day management, so the employees there are shielded from much of Musk's management style.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#138

Post by jacquesm »

agumonkey wrote: post #108
WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Tell us, what extraordinary work you have done?" I wrote code that worked.... I like boring things.

I like to check for ranges and limits

Big fan of treating all inputs and outputs to and from functions as hostile. So parameters and return values as well. Always interesting how fast the bugs turn up once you start enforcing that.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#139

Post by mlyle »

emilecantin wrote: post #10
dylan604 wrote: post #2

I have often wondered about this, so I do find this interesting. Of all of the info presented, one question I have is how does the AI decide when to go at a 4-way stop? In real life, I'm am constantly amazed at how confusing a 4-way stop is to humans. Not that I ever had any doubt into how complicated real-time video analysis could be, this just makes my appreciation of the complexity of the problem that much more qu…

The algorithm I apply is actually pretty simple: First at the intersection goes first. So you, individually, should let everyone who was there when you arrived go before you, but you should go before everyone who arrived after you. It gets messy when people try to be polite or don't understand the rules correctly, but otherwise it's pretty easy. It might depend on your jurisdiction, though.

Yes, but there's close-to-simultaneous arrival, in which case you yield to the person on your right.

But what's "simultaneous"? If I show up 0.1 seconds before the person on my right, he could think it is simultaneous and go...

There's also the direction that is 'claimed'. If there's a dedicated left turn lane or it is obvious that the person across from you is going straight, and you want to go straight, you should go too.

In the end, multiagent arbitration of a shared resource is hard.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#140

Post by krm01 »

It still strikes me why so many people are still against a future with self driving cars. Sure, people throughout history are scared of change & new tech. But if you look at this video and compare the amount of stuff the camera catches AND processes, with the things you are seeing & processing, it's really hard for me to see me being better at it than a computer.

The reality of driving (as a human) is that most of it happens on autopilot anyway. It's rare to deal with an anomaly. So realistically, it makes total sense to keep refining these algorithms and make driving safer and more pleasant for everybody.

I just find it very hard to understand the perspective of those that are opposed to self driving cars.

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