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Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

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Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#101
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably is. The computer power necessary to go higher would use all the battery and take up a ton of space. If you've seen other self driving cars, they usually have no trunk because the entire thing is server racks.

Maybe this is ridiculous, but is it feasible that Tesla plans to use the SpaceX Starlink satellites to offload data for processing remotely?

Have you ever filled out a Captcha identifying roadsigns?

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#102
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two issues, first: I thought fully autonomous driving was meant to be done by now? Second, don't Tesla & SpaceX have a reputation for being a terrible place to work, with Musk expecting everyone to be working as hard (or harder) than him, and firing people in weird and capricious ways.

- I thought fully autonomous driving was meant to be done by now? One thing that Elon did is gathering lots of video data instead of perfecting LIDAR, and at this point it seems that he was right: until detecting objects in 3D from video data is completely solved, self driving can't work. After it's solved, LIDAR is not needed. - Tesla & SpaceX have a reputation for being a terrible place to work When I'm looking for…

> When I'm looking for jobs, my main criteria is market cap / number of employees, and Tesla (as most startups/small companies) was very bad before the stock price went up. Now with high stock prices Tesla can afford to pay market rates (even if it's in stock).

All big companies grant stock based on monetary value at the time of the grant. If you join company X when their stock went up 2x, stock grant will be smaller 2x.

You can get market rate, from historically underperforming company, only if you got grants that appreciated, don't expect grants to improve pay rate.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#103

I wonder why they would let the public see this. To the critical eye it looks like it barely works. It loses its mind right at the beginning, around 0:06-0:07, veers to the right for no reason and then rolls through a stop sign without stopping. It spends the rest of the video hunting left and right like a drunk.

Most of what is happening on that video appears to be a human controlling the vehicle, the overlay is just what the computer sees. In current public releases autopilot only warns you that it thinks you are going to run a red light / stop sign. And it is up for the human driver to actually stop. So, unless its on some beta release it was probably a human that rolled through it.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system is absolutely AI based today. There is no hardcoding like this. Hardware 3 in Tesla cars is an ASIC meant to run neural nets ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#Hardware_3 ). Why are you so confidently stating things you don't know about?

I'm not really sure what the hardware link you provided has to do with anything but plenty of rule-based heuristics are used in state of the art autonomous driving systems. Machine learning systems have taken over the image processing and classification parts, semantic segmentation, object recognition and so on but traffic rules or emergency behaviour or hard speed limits are not learned. the OP is wrong though in so…

The current AI is running rudimentary calculations based on what is truly required for flawless operation... The type of processing that is necessary to operate like a GOOD human driver is nowhere near what currently exists... Sure there are bad drivers out there, and that's why autonomous vehicles would need to be EXCEPTIONALLY good... Not just good enough for a few demos on youtube.

If a company's test cycles were good enough to warrant reliability and safety promises, the window on the CyberTruck would have never broken.... This is how companies work, they over promise and under-deliver, this time it affects everyone's safety, including safety of those who don't buy them.

I'm not saying the strides aren't impressive, I'm saying I wouldn't feel safe having this experimental technology forced upon me knowing the potential for historically complex human factors.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#105
post #3
post #2

I have often wondered about this, so I do find this interesting. Of all of the info presented, one question I have is how does the AI decide when to go at a 4-way stop? In real life, I'm am constantly amazed at how confusing a 4-way stop is to humans. Not that I ever had any doubt into how complicated real-time video analysis could be, this just makes my appreciation of the complexity of the problem that much more qu…

Yes. In theory, 4 way stops follow some simple rules -- whoever gets there first and makes a full stop goes first, and if more than one party makes a full stop at the same time, the party on the right goes first. In practice we live in a world of (very illegal) rolling stops, people beckoning at each other to go first, people inching forward, etc. That's not even considering some very stupidly designed four-way stops…

Even the theory is not that clean cut.

What if two cars arrive simultaneously at opposite sides of the 4-way and are both turning left? This could easily deadlock two self-driving cars if not considered.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#106
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The proper rules[1] of a 4 way stop are probably pretty straightforward to encode, and probably easier for a computer to apply than a human, but the real issue is that you can't trust the other drivers (or AIs) to understand/follow them consistently. So the interesting part is how these kinds of systems can almost instantly react when another driver starts to go, and let them go. In NYC, where I live now, the de fact…

The car stopping if another car goes before it brings up another issue. If self driving cars start showing up on the road and are recognizable, you'd be able to "bully" the self driving cars since you know it'll always give right away. Imagine being stuck on an on-ramp behind a car that is programmed with infinite patience and extreme risk aversion; you could be sitting there quite a while.

I imagine if enough self-driving cars were on the road, that would be less of a problem, because more regular speeds & distances between cars would allow for more opportunities for merging. Perhaps even between-car negotiations of merging or 4 way stop type of behaviour.

I think we're quite a ways away from that though - hopefully not as far away as the flying car thing :)

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#107
post #70

Awesome! Now do it again and when it passes one set of parked cars on the side, have someone roll a soccer ball in front of the Tesla. Will the car assume a child will follow from in between the cars or not?

A neural network needs to be taught this and then all cars with that training will respond correctly forever. Every individual human would need to learn this separately from experience, which would require far more soccer balls (and children).

By "taught this" do you mean kill a kid?

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#108
post #7

I believe this was released as part of Tesla's Autopilot hiring announcement. More details here: https://www.tesla.com/autopilotAI Definitely someone's dream job ;) I particularly like the applicant query: "Tell us, what extraordinary work you have done?"

"Tell us, what extraordinary work you have done?" I wrote code that worked.... I like boring things.

I like to check for ranges and limits

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#109
post #2

I have often wondered about this, so I do find this interesting. Of all of the info presented, one question I have is how does the AI decide when to go at a 4-way stop? In real life, I'm am constantly amazed at how confusing a 4-way stop is to humans. Not that I ever had any doubt into how complicated real-time video analysis could be, this just makes my appreciation of the complexity of the problem that much more qu…

There's a research dedicated to ambiguous decision in swarms.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#110
post #2

I have often wondered about this, so I do find this interesting. Of all of the info presented, one question I have is how does the AI decide when to go at a 4-way stop? In real life, I'm am constantly amazed at how confusing a 4-way stop is to humans. Not that I ever had any doubt into how complicated real-time video analysis could be, this just makes my appreciation of the complexity of the problem that much more qu…

The proper rules[1] of a 4 way stop are probably pretty straightforward to encode, and probably easier for a computer to apply than a human, but the real issue is that you can't trust the other drivers (or AIs) to understand/follow them consistently. So the interesting part is how these kinds of systems can almost instantly react when another driver starts to go, and let them go. In NYC, where I live now, the de fact…

> In NYC, where I live now, the de facto rule seems to be if you hesitate at all then the other person just goes, rules be damned.

This has been my experience pretty much everywhere I've driven, which includes a half dozen or so European countries and about as many U.S. states. Notably though I've never driven in New York, state or city.

My experience is that in larger cities, and cities with a lot of tourists, this "aggressiveness" seems to be the norm. I put that in scare quotes because I'm not sure I'd call it aggressive, I just feel it's the pragmatic way to break the tie.

Maybe that's why this is my experience everywhere – I'm that guy! (My apologies to all my fellow drivers out there!)

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