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Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

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Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#71

Post by Zeetah »

thedance wrote: post #30

I wonder why they would let the public see this. To the critical eye it looks like it barely works. It loses its mind right at the beginning, around 0:06-0:07, veers to the right for no reason and then rolls through a stop sign without stopping. It spends the rest of the video hunting left and right like a drunk.

> It loses its mind right at the beginning, around 0:06-0:07, veers to the right for no reason

I'm speculating but I think the reasons it veers to the right are some combination of the following: 1) There is water on the left hand side of the lane. I was going back and forth on the video and you can see "Raining" along the left edge turn green. So, it has detected the water and is avoiding it? At the same time it has turned green "Wet road". 2) There is a vehicle on the right side of the lane - it has been identified with an upside down green triangle / crosshairs and a square (is that block the license plate?) and the Tesla is "following" it.

Again speculating based on watching the display change.

I found this clip amazing for the following reasons: a) Around 0:02, it starts to notice the right edge of the road. Along the right edge of the video, you can see the estimated road. Around 0:04, you can see the right turn lane and the dots along the right edge change to show the vehicle has detected it. b) Detection of arrows on the road surface. They are labeled with "RA", "FA" and "LA". RA = Right Arrow, etc. c) Around 0:04, a "container" type of black outline appears on the right edge - it is a vehicle! d) Around 0:05, another container appears in the right turn area and it is another vehicle. e) Around 0:09, another container appears on the left middle and it is another vehicle.

Jumping to 0:22: f) It has seen the vehicle about to enter the scene from the left and "CutinExcited" probability starts to increase and when the vehicle has moved through the scene, it goes away. g) If you see the frame at time 28668.2612540 (?), it has picked up and classified a person on the left of the red 44.

Super impressive real-time classification.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#72

Post by outworlder »

veeralpatel979 wrote: post #29
dylan604 wrote: post #2

I have often wondered about this, so I do find this interesting. Of all of the info presented, one question I have is how does the AI decide when to go at a 4-way stop? In real life, I'm am constantly amazed at how confusing a 4-way stop is to humans. Not that I ever had any doubt into how complicated real-time video analysis could be, this just makes my appreciation of the complexity of the problem that much more qu…

I've wondered why cars don't have a built-in communication mechanism. I should be able to broadcast somehow (using a voice message?) to nearby cars that "I'm going now, don't go".

As long as it is there just to improve safety. But it should not be relied on.

In other words, if you 'hear' "don't go", you don't go. But if you don't hear anything, it still doesn't mean it's safe to go, so you'll have to rely on something else. And if you are doing that anyway, is the added complexity worth it?

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#73

Post by quantdev »

winternett wrote: post #55
quantdev wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system is absolutely AI based today. There is no hardcoding like this. Hardware 3 in Tesla cars is an ASIC meant to run neural nets ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Autopilot#Hardware_3 ). Why are you so confidently stating things you don't know about?

From your own cited source: At this level, the car can act autonomously but requires the driver to be prepared to take control at a moment's notice.[103][104] HW1 is suitable only on limited-access highways, and sometimes will fail to detect lane markings and disengage itself. In urban driving the system will not read traffic signals or obey stop signs. This system also does not detect pedestrians or cyclists,[105] a…

What does hardware 1 and AP1 have to do with the latest hardware and autopilot?

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#74

Post by Reedx »

Traster wrote: post #21
ArtWomb wrote: post #7

I believe this was released as part of Tesla's Autopilot hiring announcement. More details here: https://www.tesla.com/autopilotAI Definitely someone's dream job ;) I particularly like the applicant query: "Tell us, what extraordinary work you have done?"

Two issues, first: I thought fully autonomous driving was meant to be done by now? Second, don't Tesla & SpaceX have a reputation for being a terrible place to work, with Musk expecting everyone to be working as hard (or harder) than him, and firing people in weird and capricious ways.

It's pretty clear at this point what you're signing up for at Tesla and SpaceX. They're intentionally trying to filter for people who will dedicate much of their life to the mission of electrifying transport and becoming interplanetary. If you want to do that, there are few better options. If you don't, avoid.

As for firing, well, who knows... The story about Elon's assistant was apparently rife with misinformation, as these things often are.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#75

Post by maccam94 »

winternett wrote: post #47
Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> than your home computer can handle, much less the components in Tesla cars. Ehm a recent Tesla has very powerful specialized hardware, developed in-house, which is much more powerful than a commodity home PC with expensive GPUs. You might want to do some basic research before you make such claims... > The system isn't AI based... It's currently based on static programming A large neural network is used to make many…

There is Network Dependent AI... Not independent processing power on board each vehicle to make autonomous decisions. I was referring to AI that operates independently of a network connection. There are multiple scenarios in which a network connection can become unavailable. I'm not here to disparage Tesla, I really don't care what company creates self driving cars. Most people are acting like Tesla are the only ones…

Tesla vehicles equipped with the Full Self Driving package do have an onboard computer that runs neutral networks in real time to process sensor data and control the vehicle.

https://ww.electrek.co/2019/04/22/tesla-full-self-driving-co...

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#76

Post by throwaway55554 »

damon_c wrote: post #70
throwaway55554 wrote: post #14

Awesome! Now do it again and when it passes one set of parked cars on the side, have someone roll a soccer ball in front of the Tesla. Will the car assume a child will follow from in between the cars or not?

A neural network needs to be taught this and then all cars with that training will respond correctly forever. Every individual human would need to learn this separately from experience, which would require far more soccer balls (and children).

It's not that hard for people to learn; see a ball, expect danger and take action.

The problem with people is distraction. The problem with code (AI-ish) is people.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#77

Post by winternett »

baddox wrote: post #40
winternett wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system isn't AI based... It's currently based on static programming. This is why a development team would have to think of every possible scenario that could happen on roads to make self driving cars really work. You'd have to ask all kinds of wild questions too like: "What if kids played a prank and re-painted road lanes on a highway at 50MPH?" "What if a sand storm happened?" "What would the car do if a tire bl…

> The system isn't AI based... It's currently based on static programming. This is why a development team would have to think of every possible scenario that could happen on roads to make self driving cars really work. I'm not really sure what this dichotomy is that you're describing. It certainly looks like they're using computer vision to detect the bounding boxes of cars, and the field of computer vision is widely…

You replied to the 4 scenarios I posted, but forgot the thousands of others left while you missed my point. They were rhetorical to illustrate that nothing yet can replace a trained, experienced, and attentive driver effectively yet.

There are no simple answers to the above questions, but if a driver causes the accident, they are accountable. Companies want to launch this tech but not own accountability for accidents when it could well be faulty logic and or code that contributes to deadly incidents. In a ship... less of a risk... In a car, surrounded by 4-10 other cars, the risk is much higher.

Profit making should not drive this blatant hubris... We forget how history reminds us of an over-reliance on technology and intelligent design.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#78

Post by outworlder »

baddox wrote: post #40
winternett wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The system isn't AI based... It's currently based on static programming. This is why a development team would have to think of every possible scenario that could happen on roads to make self driving cars really work. You'd have to ask all kinds of wild questions too like: "What if kids played a prank and re-painted road lanes on a highway at 50MPH?" "What if a sand storm happened?" "What would the car do if a tire bl…

> The system isn't AI based... It's currently based on static programming. This is why a development team would have to think of every possible scenario that could happen on roads to make self driving cars really work. I'm not really sure what this dichotomy is that you're describing. It certainly looks like they're using computer vision to detect the bounding boxes of cars, and the field of computer vision is widely…

> In this particular example, I would expect self-driving cars to be vastly better than most human drivers in this situation at maintaining control while pulling over and stopping.

Cars today are vastly better at maintaining control in this situation even without self-driving. If the car has traction control, as long as the driver doesn't panic they will have a much greater chance of keeping control of their vehicle, compared to cars without a computer assisting them.

Re: Tesla's self driving algorithm's overlay [video]

#80

Post by xiphias2 »

Traster wrote: post #21
ArtWomb wrote: post #7

I believe this was released as part of Tesla's Autopilot hiring announcement. More details here: https://www.tesla.com/autopilotAI Definitely someone's dream job ;) I particularly like the applicant query: "Tell us, what extraordinary work you have done?"

Two issues, first: I thought fully autonomous driving was meant to be done by now? Second, don't Tesla & SpaceX have a reputation for being a terrible place to work, with Musk expecting everyone to be working as hard (or harder) than him, and firing people in weird and capricious ways.

- I thought fully autonomous driving was meant to be done by now?

One thing that Elon did is gathering lots of video data instead of perfecting LIDAR, and at this point it seems that he was right: until detecting objects in 3D from video data is completely solved, self driving can't work. After it's solved, LIDAR is not needed.

- Tesla & SpaceX have a reputation for being a terrible place to work

When I'm looking for jobs, my main criteria is market cap / number of employees, and Tesla (as most startups/small companies) was very bad before the stock price went up. Now with high stock prices Tesla can afford to pay market rates (even if it's in stock).

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