> DER SPIEGEL: Would it make sense to colonize Mars as a Plan B, as planned by Tesla entrepreneur Elon Musk?
It was never a "plan B" against global warming. Its a "plan A" in case of a catastrophic natural event.
James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'
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Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'
#202Perhaps it might have been possible in some long distant past to underestimate Elon Musk and write him off as a crazy person. That time is gone. If Musk appears to be doing something crazy you've not understood it. > It’s crazy, completely crazy. Elon Musk has read too much science fiction. He got carried away with it. If I were in his position, I would not waste my fortune on colonizing Mars. And all they would lear…
I'm gonna take the risk of being extremely unpopular and I'll say that Musk is completely overrated. I think he's nowhere near the level of people that we usually think of as geniuses. In certain ways he's good at marketing and hyping things up, but a lot of his ideas, especially the Mars one, are nonsensical. Just try to think about this: how bad do the conditions on Earth have to get before it makes sense to try to…
The comment you are responding to is the perfect response to your comment. GP basically references your line of thinking in it, and you didn’t really refute anything they said.
Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'
#203This topic comes up a lot and I know it excites investors, but I have yet to see a viable plan for kick-starting the magnetic field on Mars. No magnetic field means no way to have an atmosphere, water or life and everyone has to stay in caves or incredibly durable modules indefinitely. The only O2 and H2O is what you bring with you or produce in the modules. The only reason I could see doing this is if we knew of imp…
It's possible to have an artificial magnetosphere with current technology:
https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/V2050/pdf/8250.pdf
Theoretically at some point it should be possible to make this somewhat permanent with minimal maintenance. Depending on technology it could go from a station that lasts a hundred years to millions of years.
Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'
#204Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm gonna take the risk of being extremely unpopular and I'll say that Musk is completely overrated. I think he's nowhere near the level of people that we usually think of as geniuses. In certain ways he's good at marketing and hyping things up, but a lot of his ideas, especially the Mars one, are nonsensical. Just try to think about this: how bad do the conditions on Earth have to get before it makes sense to try to…
Musk's skill is not pure genius. He's relatively smart, but nothing Earth-shattering. And he's also not particularly good at marketing... What he's good at is executing on ideas that people think are absolutely crazy. And he leans into the craziness a bit beforehand by choosing to describe stuff in a way that sounds a bit unbelievable ("hoverslam onto a droneship" = land under constant deceleration on a barge with st…
> So the more nonsensical he makes it sound, the greater the return when it actually happens.
I agree, but this is true only when things actually happen. How about his idea of using rockets instead of planes for long haul flight (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LENvGRsr7Q)? Or how about the hyperloop - any real progress on that? Or his idea of a submersible to save those kids trapped in a cave - was it good that he hyped that up? Remember when he started calling people pedophiles without proof?
I'm also curious if you have more details on his technical contributions to Tesla and SpaceX. Do you know to what extent he's actually involved in the work (design, engineering etc.)?
Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://science.nasa.gov/heliophysics/focus-areas/magnetosph...
That's a pretty simplistic explanation. If you look at the details, the magnetosphere is protecting the atmosphere. Take each kind of radiation in turn. X-Rays: The magnetosphere has no effect UV: The magnetosphere has no effect Cosmic rays: While both the Earth's magnetic field and the sun's magnetic deflect some cosmic rays, the Earth's atmosphere is mostly opaque to cosmic rays. Solar wind/coronal mass ejections:…
But if we had the artificial magnetosphere and then populated the atmosphere we would get similar effects to Earth's protection?
Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'
#206He may be a smart dude, but this answer is out there: > "DER SPIEGEL: Cancer is a silent killer that might get diagnosed long after the exposure, when it is too late. > Lovelock: I've had 10 cancers in the last few years and it hasn't been very bad. They just appear and grow. If you go to a good oncologist nearby, they'll take it out. It's just unfortunate for people who let it happen and it grows and grows until it'…
I seem to remember a turtleneck guy that got felled by cancer. He was running a fruit company, perhaps there isn't that much money in fruits afterall.
Turtleneck guy would have survived easily. But he started to trink herbal tea to cure his cancer. Surprisingly, it didn't work.
Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'
#207JMS had it right:
Mary Ann Cramer: I have to ask you the same question people back home are asking about space these days. Is it worth it? Should we just pull back? Forget the whole thing as a bad idea, and take care of our own problems at home?
Sinclair: No. We have to stay here. And there's a simple reason why. Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics, and you'll get ten different answers. But there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe, and Lao-Tzu, and Einstein, and Morobuto, and Buddy Holly, and Aristophanes, and all of this…all of this…was for nothing. Unless we go to the stars.
Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'
#208Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm gonna take the risk of being extremely unpopular and I'll say that Musk is completely overrated. I think he's nowhere near the level of people that we usually think of as geniuses. In certain ways he's good at marketing and hyping things up, but a lot of his ideas, especially the Mars one, are nonsensical. Just try to think about this: how bad do the conditions on Earth have to get before it makes sense to try to…
The comment you are responding to is the perfect response to your comment. GP basically references your line of thinking in it, and you didn’t really refute anything they said.
Well, the truth is my comment doesn't directly attack the GP. It was more my take on Musk in general.
That being said, the GP doesn't actually provide any evidence, hence there's not much to refute.
Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'
#209I see Mars not so much as a "plan b" or "insurance". That's just a nice side effect.
Humans venturing out into space and establishing colonies is a big step in human evolution. It's a bigger step than when animal life left the oceans and ventured onto land.
If you look at all of life on Earth from far away, there would be only a few achievements you could see. Rather shortly after life began, it changed Earth's atmosphere by producing lots of oxygen.
Right now we are changing the atmosphere again (unintendedly).
When we leave the planet and venture out into the solar system we are taking the first step to establish a presence beyond the planet we started on.
The next big challenges on the same order of magnitude will be to leave the solar system and spread around the galaxy. And then make the jump to other galaxies. It's a long way to go. We don't know how long the window of opportunity remains open. It is open now. We should get moving. That's what Musk is saying and doing.
Re: James Lovelock: 'I Would Not Waste My Fortune on Colonizing Mars'
#210Earlier quoted context omitted.
There's no comparison here. Musk acquired his money through voluntary exchanges with buyers freely and willingly engaging in market transactions. The government uses coercive force to raise taxes, it is not voluntary. Tax money is public property and we should have a say in how it is spent. Musk's money we gave to him freely and is his to dispose of as he sees fit.
> Tax money is public property and we should have a say in how it is spent. Musk's money we gave to him freely and is his to dispose of as he sees fit. A substantial portion of Elon Musk's company's funding comes from "tax money" (Goverment contracts, EV credits, tax breaks, subsidies). This seems to contradict both of your sentences. And if you don't believe it's substantial: Tesla's EV credit sales alone were on th…
> Did the public have a say in that?
Have a say in it? Ha. The public CREATED it and drove it. Government are followers of public opinion, not leaders.
There are politicians now who are building their identities and campaigns around green policies like EV credits. This is in response to the expressed desires of the public, it is what wins votes.
However there's no contradiction. What the government spends money on in free market voluntary transactions is absolutely 100% within the purview of the public - right up until the instant the money is spent. After that the money is the property of the market participant who earned it. The public cannot spend the money (through government) and then also try to claw back control of the same money. It was spent, on your behalf certainly, but spent nonetheless.