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UpCounsel Shutting Down

upcounsel.com

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Re: UpCounsel Shutting Down

#11

Post by gumby »

nihonde wrote: post #5

Silicon Valley has consistently failed to disrupt legal markets, not just because lawyers are a protectionist guild, but also because clients seem to want to overpay. It’s a pathology that has something to do with the idea that the higher cost is worthwhile. As a lawyer who has been both a BigLaw attorney and in-house counsel, I find the premise that name brand law firms are worth their fees to be totally wrong. The…

I think the customers don't know how to use legal counsel and somehow don't want to learn. I agree it's bizarre.

I have used Gunderson Dettmer since they started (was before that one of VLG's first accounts) and have very low legal bills. But I know when to use them and when not to. And when a partner is needed (almost never) and when I can get as good or better from an associate.

Another weird thing is that many customers value the firm and not the partner (I don't really use the firm GD, I use specific people). I "used" Cooley for one specific firm but really I used one person and when he decamped for another firm my company moved with him. Likewise just because that company used Cooley for general corporate law didn't mean we even considered their patent team.

Re: UpCounsel Shutting Down

#12

Post by manigandham »

DangerousPie wrote: post #6

Huh, I have just been looking to get some legal advice and this seems like exactly the kind of service I'd want to use. Shame it's shutting down. Does anybody know similar services?

A good alternative is https://www.lawtrades.com

Also you can call local offices and individual lawyers and build up a long-term relationship. I've done that for previous startups and they can easily handle most general work and introduce you to any specialists you need, while saving all the overhead of going with a firm or in-house counsel.

Re: UpCounsel Shutting Down

#13

Post by tnolet »

- "journey": check

- "humbled, honored": check

- complete shutdown - no context on what, why, and how it happened: check.

This is a sour post, sorry for that. Startups are hard, no question about that.

But as mentioned elsewhere, this type of posts just adds more damage and unclarity to a situation that is probably pretty dramatic for the founders, customer and employees.

Re: UpCounsel Shutting Down

#15

Post by manigandham »

nihonde wrote: post #5

Silicon Valley has consistently failed to disrupt legal markets, not just because lawyers are a protectionist guild, but also because clients seem to want to overpay. It’s a pathology that has something to do with the idea that the higher cost is worthwhile. As a lawyer who has been both a BigLaw attorney and in-house counsel, I find the premise that name brand law firms are worth their fees to be totally wrong. The…

Part of it is that legal work has high risk if done wrong so people tend to prefer large firms and high prices since it offers peace of mind, even if there's no real difference.

Re: UpCounsel Shutting Down

#16

Post by nihonde »

manigandham wrote: post #15
nihonde wrote: post #5

Silicon Valley has consistently failed to disrupt legal markets, not just because lawyers are a protectionist guild, but also because clients seem to want to overpay. It’s a pathology that has something to do with the idea that the higher cost is worthwhile. As a lawyer who has been both a BigLaw attorney and in-house counsel, I find the premise that name brand law firms are worth their fees to be totally wrong. The…

Part of it is that legal work has high risk if done wrong so people tend to prefer large firms and high prices since it offers peace of mind, even if there's no real difference.

I don’t buy into the idea that big law firms are more accountable than anyone else. I’ve spent too much time behind the scenes to fall for that anymore.

Can you imagine trying to sue a global law firm for malpractice? Are you aware that everything gets pushed down to the lowest, least experienced associate because that’s built into the business model?

Some firms are better than others, but I just simply don’t trust any of them any more.

Edit: I also don’t have too much respect for senior partners at big law firms any more. What kind of person cedes that much of their personal equity? If they were really great, they’d take their clients and run away from the huge, dysfunctional cost structure of BigLaw.

Re: UpCounsel Shutting Down

#17

Post by privateSFacct »

tnolet wrote: post #13

- "journey": check - "humbled, honored": check - complete shutdown - no context on what, why, and how it happened: check. This is a sour post, sorry for that. Startups are hard, no question about that. But as mentioned elsewhere, this type of posts just adds more damage and unclarity to a situation that is probably pretty dramatic for the founders, customer and employees.

These are the scammers that would report 4,000 5 star reviews for tiny law firms supposedly handling high end ip matters? It was a total scam set of ratings (they claimed to just use top 5% of firms as well but the “ratings” they claimed users left were garbage) - their transparency might have to be “we were caught making up reviews of attorneys on our site”? Don’t know details but someone could find a bar complaint or lawsuit I think

Re: UpCounsel Shutting Down

#18

Post by c0restraint »

nihonde wrote: post #16
manigandham wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it is that legal work has high risk if done wrong so people tend to prefer large firms and high prices since it offers peace of mind, even if there's no real difference.

I don’t buy into the idea that big law firms are more accountable than anyone else. I’ve spent too much time behind the scenes to fall for that anymore. Can you imagine trying to sue a global law firm for malpractice? Are you aware that everything gets pushed down to the lowest, least experienced associate because that’s built into the business model? Some firms are better than others, but I just simply don’t trust a…

> I don’t buy into the idea that big law firms are more accountable than anyone else.

That’s not what the previous person said. People just think they’re paying a premium to get it done right, when as you point out, price is uncorrelated to correctness

Re: UpCounsel Shutting Down

#19

Post by manigandham »

nihonde wrote: post #16
manigandham wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it is that legal work has high risk if done wrong so people tend to prefer large firms and high prices since it offers peace of mind, even if there's no real difference.

I don’t buy into the idea that big law firms are more accountable than anyone else. I’ve spent too much time behind the scenes to fall for that anymore. Can you imagine trying to sue a global law firm for malpractice? Are you aware that everything gets pushed down to the lowest, least experienced associate because that’s built into the business model? Some firms are better than others, but I just simply don’t trust a…

Yes, my point is that people prefer the bigger names because it comes with a better perception of quality and general guarantee that they'll be around in case something goes wrong.

Re: UpCounsel Shutting Down

#20

Post by jiveturkey »

nihonde wrote: post #16
manigandham wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of it is that legal work has high risk if done wrong so people tend to prefer large firms and high prices since it offers peace of mind, even if there's no real difference.

I don’t buy into the idea that big law firms are more accountable than anyone else. I’ve spent too much time behind the scenes to fall for that anymore. Can you imagine trying to sue a global law firm for malpractice? Are you aware that everything gets pushed down to the lowest, least experienced associate because that’s built into the business model? Some firms are better than others, but I just simply don’t trust a…

> I don’t buy into the idea ...

You are failing to put yourself into the customer's shoes. Maybe you don't buy into it, but clearly customers do.

I don't know what the legal disruptor market strategy is, but going on what you've said, they shouldn't be differentiating on price. Rather, use reputation against the incumbents, somehow.

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