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Educated Fools

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Re: Educated Fools

#211

Post by TeMPOraL »

jml7c5 wrote: post #68
baybal2 wrote: post #6

Man, this is gold. I for long tried to write something along those lines, but I think the author did summarise my thoughts better than I could've done myself. The class conflict — something that western literati class keep denying acknowledgement, is really the driver of much of social progress. And this holds more even more true in the West than in the East. The class warfare is there, it exists, and it is what has…

>The class conflict [...] is really the driver of much of social progress. How so?

I'm thinking: because it gives people a strong, active, positive goal to pursue. Members of each class want to migrate to the higher one, or at the very least, have their children break into the higher one.

If you're discriminated or treated unfairly by a group of people, the natural reaction would be to separate yourself from that group of people, not fight it. But if for some reason you really want to join that group - perhaps because they're of higher socioeconomical class - then you have a motivation to fight and reform things.

Re: Educated Fools

#212

Post by mixmastamyk »

supernova87a wrote: post #113

The problem of modern liberal America is not a divide between educated / less-educated, or race, or any of that. Those are just symbols that make it easy for someone to try to pin it on those false issues. The problem is that many liberal-thinking people, having believed that they (or the country) has solved many of the material and quality of life needs in their little pocket of the world (and told thus by the daily…

Honestly it sounds like you’ve been watching too much TV/Twitter. No one I know in real life is concerned with that stuff. Another article on the site talks about the “exhausted majority.” Indeed.

Re: Educated Fools

#213

Post by mixmastamyk »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #178
Consultant32452 wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think you have any insight into what is in their best interest, which of their interests should be most important to them, or how they should measure their quality of life?

If you don't have cost-effective access to good healthcare, you could literally die. And if you're poorly educated, you're much more likely to be less financially well off and that could itself lead to all kinds of suffering. But I get the sense that you're aiming for the presentation of being objectively insightful when really you're quite transparently arguing in bad faith for the sake of provocation, so I'll just…

The democrats didn’t deliver cost-effective healthcare or education or anything they keep trying to subsidize. Prices keep going up. Funny how that works. The smugness is just icing on the cake.

Re: Educated Fools

#214

Post by mixmastamyk »

yodsanklai wrote: post #207
mixmastamyk wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could and should, but probably won’t.

I don't know in the US, but during the 5 years it took me to graduate, I usually had about 30-40 hours of classes a week, plus a lot of personal work (especially in maths), and that for 5 years. If you want to do that by yourself, you need to: - decide what you need to learn, and find what are the best resources to learn it - keep motivated for many years, without feedback that you're on the right track - convince yo…

They have these devices called books, and work experience. I think the main benefit is the discipline of others having expectations, especially when young.

Re: Educated Fools

#215

Post by humanrebar »

jayd16 wrote: post #65
toasterlovin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Democratic Party is driving a wedge between itself, FWIW. The talking points around political correctness could not be better designed to alienate working and middle class white people.

>The talking points around political correctness could not be better designed to alienate working and middle class white people. As a middle class white, I ask "such as?"

Recent headlines?

Latinx, drag queens as family friendly content, overreach on dilution and removal of gendering (no more daddy/daughter events), politicizing sports, politicizing popcorn movies, censorship of standup comedians, social media bans, student loan forgiveness pitches. Anything that looks like a bailout to the rich and upper middle class, including for homeowners.

Re: Educated Fools

#216

Post by wangii »

goatinaboat wrote: post #210
wangii wrote: post #20

as Chinese lives in uk, they had been my questions for a long time: why did you guys voted for david cameron, barack obama, (any politician, really) at all? had they ever struggled to pay their bills? do they really feel your pain?

had they ever struggled to pay their bills? It’s a good question. The last genuine PM we had was John Major, the son of a gardener who studied at night school while working for his father during the day. Before him was Maggie Thatcher, an industrial chemist by trade. All since then have been career politicians from the political class. Blair went to Fettes, the “Scottish Eton”. Cameron and Boris were classmates at Et…

that's my issue. I don't think most of people here no longer need to worry about money, yet the leaders from either sides never worked a day in their lives. how could you vote for them?

Re: Educated Fools

#217

Post by wangii »

rossdavidh wrote: post #44
wangii wrote: post #20

as Chinese lives in uk, they had been my questions for a long time: why did you guys voted for david cameron, barack obama, (any politician, really) at all? had they ever struggled to pay their bills? do they really feel your pain?

Good question. There are certain professions, and really only a very few, that prepare one well for the task of campaigning for office. Lawyer, military officer, business executive, actor, a few others. All of them are from the professional class, nowadays, with the partial exception of military officer. Once upon a time, a lot more power was held by local politicians, who were often from the working class. Over time…

understand. it turns out to be a marketing problem.

Re: Educated Fools

#218

Post by wangii »

jancsika wrote: post #130
wangii wrote: post #20

as Chinese lives in uk, they had been my questions for a long time: why did you guys voted for david cameron, barack obama, (any politician, really) at all? had they ever struggled to pay their bills? do they really feel your pain?

What do the 2nd and 3rd question have to do with the 1st? I don't see a clear connection because: 1. the current U.S. president won without having either of those attributes you imply are worth mentioning 2. Bernie Sanders hits both of your imagined electability points and couldn't even beat Hillary Clinton to gain the Democratic nomination last election. 3. Bill Clinton, probably the epitome of "relatable and strugg…

Bernie Sanders was one of my favorite politician, along with Ron Paul(apart from his monetarily policy). They seems to be 'relatable'.

my questions are really about you, as voters, not campaign strategist. your analytical response reminds me the episode of West Wing, about 'presidential'.

Re: Educated Fools

#219

Post by jacquesm »

hinkley wrote: post #202
tacitusarc wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the problem is the suggestion that they need help in the first place. So what Joe the garbage truck driver didn't go to college? So what he has a small house in a kinda shitty neighborhood? Maybe he's doing the best he can and maybe he actually has a pretty happy life. The working class doesn't need pity and suggestions to move or go get a degree. Here's something novel: why are the roads in nice neighborhood…

I always wonder how the mental model works for some people. They espouse a way to live that they think everyone should do, but that way includes not making your own food, hauling your own trash, or (at least for many of them) building your own things. If they got their way, they’d have to do all the stuff they look down on other people for being competent at. But I don’t think they want them to do these things, they…

Besides that, Joe the garbage truck driver may be a better dad than the people criticizing him.

Re: Educated Fools

#220

Post by wangii »

hogFeast wrote: post #71
wangii wrote: post #20

as Chinese lives in uk, they had been my questions for a long time: why did you guys voted for david cameron, barack obama, (any politician, really) at all? had they ever struggled to pay their bills? do they really feel your pain?

Hahaha, has Xi Jingping felt yours? The guy is a billionaire who literally doesn't live in the same world as anyone he rules over. Thank god that people vote for people like Cameron and Obama. Both are examples of politics working. Competent, middle-of-road types, not ideological, willing to compromise, intelligent...the aim of politics is to further the aims of the people (both were democratically elected) and do so…

there is really no need to make your point by attacking Mr. Xi, which I'm not a big fan of. However, according to his resume, he had been in pretty hard condition when he was young. in this sense, there is a chance he 'feels' the pains of people he rules more than his counterparts in the west.

you are absolutely right about "Politics isn't a suffering competition", but I'd argue it's a reasonable(even good) starting point: only when you want no one no more people suffering the same as you, you are motivated to play the game of politics.

on the example of Mao, I have no problem with your opinion. however I'd like to point out you simply couldn't use it as 'fact' to support your argument. it only weakens your position.

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