EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard • Hacker News Board

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#461

Post by PunksATawnyFill » Sun, Feb 02, 2020, 6:41 AM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #258

paxys wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that plugs into the wall is already regulated (for every electronic device, not just chargers). That is why you don't have to rewire your house when you buy a new phone. This directive is specifically for the bit that connects to your phone.

And every single Apple phone I've owned so far uses a cable that plugs into USB A. Which is a standard. I'm still using the wall warts I got for my original iPhone. Which have international wall plug kits. Solid, long-lived electronics. Meanwhile, the burner phones I've bought for when I'm in the EU have these shitty all-in-one wall-to-micro-USB, and I ended up eventually throwing them out. So there's your e-waste.

Micro-USB is shit.

So is Lightning, but at least it’s slightly more robust physically.

USB-C and be done with it.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#462

Post by PunksATawnyFill » Sun, Feb 02, 2020, 6:43 AM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #113

pwinnski wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is already using USB-C on the bit that plugs into the wall, so if that's all this is, it's nothing. Apple has protested this, so it seems like it must be more.

What is Apple is heading toward completely sealed phones with only wireless charging / data xfer and they’re nervous that the EU is going to force them to keep the physical port on the device?

Wireless charging is a stupid gimmick, but it’s the anti-consumer angle that will get Apple on board with wireless-only.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#463

Post by freepor » Sun, Feb 02, 2020, 8:49 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #357

freepor wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why does the EU bureaucracy know that charging ports cannot be an important part of product differentiation? I would hope they wouldn’t legislate a common screen size or a common operating system... why legislate a common charging port? I STRONGLY prefer Lightning and would hope that people who prefer Lightning like me can buy Apple and people who prefer USB-C can buy Android.

Because the EU isn't there to pamper big corporations, it is there to strengthen the rights of consumers and citizens by strengthening competition. If your company can't survive without selling adapters or locking in customers with unnecessary differing standards (and therefor avoiding competition), maybe it isn't really healthy to begin with. I would have a different perspective if there was really a practical reaso…

There absolutely is — Lightning is far easier to plug in in the dark.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#464

Post by Lio » Sun, Feb 02, 2020, 9:18 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #439

wsy wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything where high interoperability is more beneficial for consumers than proprietary solutions by individual companies. As a rule of thumb, everything where standardization brings more benefits to consumers than innovation. Note that as consumer, I can't vote with my money for standardization. I can only vote for one of the proprietary solutions. So if 70% of consumers stick to one option, and 30% stick to the ot…

So it would be more beneficial that Apple is forced to make FaceTime interoperable and all messaging platforms. Should the government enforce that too?

No one other than you has brought that up.

It’s perfectly possible to have sensible hardware standards where doing so will not impede the market without insisting that all software be also standardised.

For the record I think it would be useful for Apple to have the built in Facetime client be able to communicate with other phone platforms. I don’t think Apple should be compelled to offer that currently.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

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Post by jakobegger » Sun, Feb 02, 2020, 10:19 AM UTC

npo9 wrote: post #238

cosmodisk wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely not,in any way or form.Charger is only second to a power plug.My TV, router, washing machine and hair dryer use the same type of plug to get electricity from a socket. It's 2020 and yet we argue how it's beneficial to have x types of phones with z types of connections...Come on!

Electrical plugs also haven’t had any real innovations since the ground wire. I hope to see innovations in power/data cables to cellphones more frequently than that! Edit: even if the innovations is just faster data transfer and more power.

Electrical plugs have evolved besides adding a ground wire, at least in the EU. The most recent improvement is that most new outlets are now child-save (while staying compatible with legacy plugs).

And I think that it‘s a good thing that things don’t change all the time!

Our electronic devices that we use regularly need 4 different chargers! I‘m looking forward to the day when it‘s all just going to be USB-C.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#466

Post by jakobegger » Sun, Feb 02, 2020, 10:22 AM UTC

fiter wrote: post #244

cosmodisk wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is absolutely not,in any way or form.Charger is only second to a power plug.My TV, router, washing machine and hair dryer use the same type of plug to get electricity from a socket. It's 2020 and yet we argue how it's beneficial to have x types of phones with z types of connections...Come on!

It's my experience that monitors, routers, speakers, and other devices often have non-standardized connectors. At the very least there are many different barrel connectors with different sizes, voltages, and amperages.

In my experience 90% of the barrel connectors use 12V and the only difference is the amp rating. And you can always use a higher rated device.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#467

Post by hesarenu » Sun, Feb 02, 2020, 10:33 AM UTC

scarface74 wrote: post #404

hesarenu wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple forces everyone to use their own browser engine , their own marketplace no free will there. Competent adult can not judge products on their own, they can only install Apple approved ones!.

If only people had another choice of mobile phone operating systems....

If only competent adult are able to judge products and make decisions about tradeoffs and you didn’t need the government to help you do it would be able to install whatever they want.

You can't have it both way dude unless you think Apple is afraid and going to loose money which might bring down the stock value.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#468

Post by scarface74 » Sun, Feb 02, 2020, 11:41 AM UTC

hesarenu wrote: post #467

scarface74 wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only people had another choice of mobile phone operating systems....

If only competent adult are able to judge products and make decisions about tradeoffs and you didn’t need the government to help you do it would be able to install whatever they want. You can't have it both way dude unless you think Apple is afraid and going to loose money which might bring down the stock value.

If I buy a game console, I have to choose between what the platform offers and the trade offs. I don’t need the nanny state to tell Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft how to build their platforms.

85% of the world chooses Android. If you want to choose your browser, you are free to choose Android also.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

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Post by ksec » Sun, Feb 02, 2020, 12:09 PM UTC

georgespencer wrote: post #454

ksec wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I dont think you understand Apple's business and supply chain really well, due to theirs sheer scale, they do count pennies. 2. There are roughly 1.5 billion devices with Lighting Port, if only 10% of its user buy a new cable every year at $1 net profits that is $150M per year. Not to mention they ship 250M lightning cables inside new devices every year that could be used to mask their BOM and margin. From Apple's…

> they do count pennies Counting pennies means saving money. It does not mean driving revenue through low-cost licensing sales. I think your point is that Apple has such significant scale that just charging a few bucks a year to a fraction of their users means that they make what you or I would consider to be significant revenue. > if only 10% of its users buy a new cable every year at $1 net profits that is $150m a…

>The total revenue generated by MFI is likely to be far, far less than that

Since you are talking about "revenue" and not profits, I can assure you the world sells more than 80M MFi lightning cable per year.

There are absolute number, hundreds of millions, or there are relative numbers. 1%. Just to make a point, AMD only earn a Net Income or 300M this year.

The same argument could have made for Apple to provide more iCloud Storage for Free, Which they wont.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#470

Post by dimman » Sun, Feb 02, 2020, 12:33 PM UTC

eurleif wrote: post #344

dimman wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your statement would make more sense if USB-C somehow magically would be immune to wear, but it’s not.

You didn't understand this sentence: "Simply buying a new cable does nothing to fix that because the springs are in the phone." With Lightning, the springs are in the phone. With USB-C, the springs are in the cable. Springs are a moving part, and thus especially vulnerable to wear. Replacing a cable is cheaper than replacing a phone.

I did. The springs wearing out very much means bad contact at the contact points, we do agree there. However the receiver end with gold plated contacts points do also wear out. I’ve yet to see anything pointing towards springs wearing out before the gold plated areas (that is being worn by friction each insertion/removal) do.

I’ve got a Lightning cable with worn out gold plated contact points, the springs in the phone are perfectly fine.

My point being that without some reliable statistics pointing to springs being way more susceptible to wear than gold plated contact points, it doesn’t make any difference.

(FWIW: I currently work with factory equipment for PCB production testing and bad contact due to oxidation and wear is a much bigger issue than springs going bad, but that’s just my experience.)