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Educated Fools

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Re: Educated Fools

#151

Post by realtalk_sp »

I read this and can't help but think that the real fools are the ones buying into the elitism narrative that the far-right has been peddling for years. It's a deliberate red herring exploiting the very human tendency to chafe at any perceived condescension.

If people in the US primarily voted the issues (that matter and affect them) instead of on the basis of nonsense, Democrats would win by a landslide.

Republican politicians are trading away relatively meaningless concessions (on things they likely don't genuinely care about like guns, LGBT rights, abortion, religion, etc) as a cover for tremendously detrimental policymaking that includes broad spectrum deregulation, huge transfers into the military-industrial complex, and massive cuts to social programs including education, healthcare, welfare, etc.

We know that's the game plan. The real fools are the people who continue to fall for this shit.

Edit: I should add that I don't necessarily believe everything about the Democratic Party's platform is valid. But they are unquestionably the better choice for the vast majority of voters.

Re: Educated Fools

#152

Post by sangnoir »

yborg wrote: post #148
cleandreams wrote: post #82

I grew up in the author's city in the midst of long term economic abandonment and decline. It was terrifying, to be honest. I think the spread of this across the industrialized Midwest elected Trump. I have had many arguments with fellow liberals about the globalized economy. In a nutshell, I don't believe in it, if the result is an alienated wasteland where the old working class economy used to be. We, the elite (I…

>implementing outsourcing Exactly, this seemed completely missing from the hand-wringing about how what's wrong with the Democratic party is that it is just too elitist for the working classes now. There is in fact a lot of truth to that, but it is the economic policy, or lack thereof, of both parties has allowed capital, controlled by very few, to flow unimpeded overseas. If you want to retain a middle-class economi…

> My own employer is aggressively moving to shift all of it's technical knowledge work to India; companies like Accenture and IBM now employ more people there than in the US.

Turns out "Beware the behaviors you incentivize" doesn't only apply to scrappy startups, but scales up to whole nations. If profit is the sole metric you judge companies/CEOs/boards by, don't be surprised by the lengths they will go to maximize it.

Re: Educated Fools

#153

Post by dougmwne »

epicgiga wrote: post #144
overgard wrote: post #43

I totally agree with the article, but to me the saddest part of all of this is I'm unconvinced that a college education is actually even that useful. (I say that with a four year CS degree). Most majors, to be blunt, are pretty useless in terms of real world skills. The argument is "they teach you how to think". I don't know how you would even measure that, but it doesn't seem that true, especially since colleges are…

I'd go further, and say that at this point, college is a self serving regime that needs to be overthrown. I've no problem with dedicated medical schools and law schools etc, but there's something about the university system that is deeply corrupt and self absorbed. We should break them up, have the schools be separate schools, and have separate certification centers and competition in certificates (which would plug i…

I'm not sure if it's possible. We all have plenty of incentive to keep on pretending that the emperor has clothes. The educated elite run the world. Why would we overthrow ourselves? The degree is the first fence protecting the gated community of the new urban aristocracy.

Re: Educated Fools

#154

Post by kamarg »

jayd16 wrote: post #114
overgard wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To answer your question: plenty. I've had the pleasure of working with a lot of people without college educations who are great.

Sure. A degree isn't a requirement to be good. That's not whats in question here. I'm trying to illustrate the absurd notion that the skills you gain in college are not useful by pointing out the obvious skill gap between a fresh high school and fresh college grad.

What about a fresh college grad vs a high school grad with four more years of problem solving, socialization, and maturity? They comparison you make isn't fair because you aren't giving the high school grad the benefit of added learning they would accumulate in the same time period the college grad was taking courses.

Re: Educated Fools

#155

Post by jariel »

realtalk_sp wrote: post #151

I read this and can't help but think that the real fools are the ones buying into the elitism narrative that the far-right has been peddling for years. It's a deliberate red herring exploiting the very human tendency to chafe at any perceived condescension. If people in the US primarily voted the issues (that matter and affect them) instead of on the basis of nonsense, Democrats would win by a landslide. Republican p…

" and massive cuts to social programs including education, healthcare, "

The US spends more per-capita on education than almost any other nation, and produces a higher % of college grads as well. [1]

The US spends more per-capita on healthcare than any other nation - not just private but public as well! The US spends more per-capita on public healthcare alone than does Canada, wherein Canadians get full coverage. [2]

These issues goes way beyond just 'spending'.

[1] https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/81-604-x/2016001/ch/chb-...

[2] https://www.statista.com/statistics/283221/per-capita-health...

Re: Educated Fools

#156

Post by allovernow »

austhrow743 wrote: post #139
allovernow wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Meritocracy is a dangerous ideal for humanity to continue to hold so dearly. IQ is partially genetic, and with a low ceiling How can you possibly allocate resources efficiently if you don't consider whether those you are allocating to are competent? What do you propose? Derisk with massive government bureaucracy?

Why do we need to allocate resources efficiently? People having lots of resources hasn't really made us any happier. If lots of resources made a difference everyone in developed countries would be euphoric 24/7. Yet we're chock full of anti-depressants and still sometimes intentionally kill ourselves.

No, I'm talking about the manpower and materials that are necessary for food, water, transportation, medical care, and all of the other thousands of things that make society work.

Ultimately, scarce resources, which take their own industries to produce, need to be allocated so the many goods and services we need and want can be designed, built, and/or executed/delivered. If you do not rely on merit to decide who does what, everything will absolutely collapse.

Re: Educated Fools

#157

Post by edgan »

barrenflats wrote: post #124

This one really hits home for me. I’m at a cross roads in my life right now and kind of lost. I had a great job working as the number 2 at a small business that I lucked into, but for various reasons beyond the control of the corporation, had to close. I’m in my late 20s, and as this article puts it, merely a high school graduate. I can code and do IT work, coordinate problem solving between businesses, read scientif…

Where do you live?

We have a lot in common. I have managed to make a career without a degree. It is fairly common in Silicon Valley. I started with computer consulting, then was a sysadmin/IT, and now I am in DevOps.

Re: Educated Fools

#158

Post by randomdata »

titanomachy wrote: post #95
tjr225 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I say all of this as someone making over six figures working from home in a situation I could have never imagined myself in ten years ago. I needed my degree; but just to get my foot in the door. I didn't learn much during the process itself other than to recognize the meta fact that I had to do it to get out of my current situation. This would have been a real problem for me financially if it didn't work ou…

It seems that a lot of people feel their degree was not useful. My studies were definitely far removed from what I now do for a living. However, I have not met (except on HN) any successful "knowledge workers" without a degree. I'm sure there are many factors contributing to that: smarter people are more likely to pursue degrees in the first place, companies may ignore otherwise good candidates since they lack a degr…

> However, I have not met (except on HN) any successful "knowledge workers" without a degree.

Aside from hearing the odd person tell a funny story from their college days (which, I might add, does not guarantee that they successfully attained a degree), I don't think I've met anyone (except on HN) in the last decade or so where scholastic background has even come up in conversation.

It was something to talk about when we were young and being fresh out of school was news, sure, but as I get older the conversations have moved on to more pertinent topics like homeownership and children. Nobody really cares to talk about something that happened so long ago that people born back then are now in college themselves.

So, I am rather curious as to how you would ever know? I cannot even begin to see if your assertion holds true within my professional peer group as I have absolutely no idea if any of them have degrees or not.

Re: Educated Fools

#159

Post by wjmao88 »

sanj wrote: post #101
scottLobster wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Difference is the Doctor has no direct authority over you, and can't implement policies that dictate how much you make, or how you live, or who/what you should morally value. Everyone loves experts in an advisory role, but they want someone who shares their values in charge

A physician can have you committed to be forcibly detained if they believe you’ll hurt yourself. They can have your children taken away. They can have your vehicle license revoked: car or aircraft. I still want one that is well educated and competent.

but its not the physician who is actuall making the decision, its the policy makers that actually made the decision that if you meet certain criterias then certain actions will be taken. The physician is only there as an advisor to assess whether you meet those criterias.

Re: Educated Fools

#160

Post by realtalk_sp »

jariel wrote: post #155
realtalk_sp wrote: post #151

I read this and can't help but think that the real fools are the ones buying into the elitism narrative that the far-right has been peddling for years. It's a deliberate red herring exploiting the very human tendency to chafe at any perceived condescension. If people in the US primarily voted the issues (that matter and affect them) instead of on the basis of nonsense, Democrats would win by a landslide. Republican p…

" and massive cuts to social programs including education, healthcare, " The US spends more per-capita on education than almost any other nation, and produces a higher % of college grads as well. [1] The US spends more per-capita on healthcare than any other nation - not just private but public as well! The US spends more per-capita on public healthcare alone than does Canada, wherein Canadians get full coverage. [2]…

I should have clarified that my comments did not apply purely to the federal level. In fact, it's a fairly well-understood irony that more local levels of government have a higher impact on peoples' lives yet receive less attention from voters.

Republicans are pummeling education systems in many of the states that they control. They've likely stolen the opportunity to be properly educated from multiple generations in the deep south. It's a tragedy. (http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/us-news-best-states-r...)

I shouldn't have to point out that government healthcare spending is not higher in this country because we're doing a better job of providing it. The fact that you quoted the raw per capita spending number suggests you're unfamiliar with the dynamics of inflated healthcare costs in the US.

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