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Educated Fools

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Re: Educated Fools

#101

Post by sanj »

scottLobster wrote: post #19
yoz-y wrote: post #9

> We don’t trust them, and would never vote for one of them. Why should they trust or vote for one of us? For the same reason I wouldn’t trust a doctor without a degree proving they did due diligence for years. I know this feels different because “anybody can do politics” but without a large worldview the measures taken will be inevitably short sighted. Now, it works the other way too. As the article states, losing t…

Difference is the Doctor has no direct authority over you, and can't implement policies that dictate how much you make, or how you live, or who/what you should morally value. Everyone loves experts in an advisory role, but they want someone who shares their values in charge

A physician can have you committed to be forcibly detained if they believe you’ll hurt yourself.

They can have your children taken away.

They can have your vehicle license revoked: car or aircraft.

I still want one that is well educated and competent.

Re: Educated Fools

#102

Post by marcosdumay »

remir wrote: post #53

Now those of us with postgraduate degrees and who are in the elite of the Democratic Party live in our own Versailles, and we don’t know any working-class people either—except perhaps the name of a barista at Starbucks or the woman who comes by at night to clean the office. I think this is one thing churches did really well; people from all social spheres coming together to serve their God. It didn't matter what job…

A long time ago churches did work that way. But during the last ~2 centuries, people of different classes would go into different churches nearer the place they live.

Re: Educated Fools

#103

Post by InitialLastName »

cleandreams wrote: post #82

I grew up in the author's city in the midst of long term economic abandonment and decline. It was terrifying, to be honest. I think the spread of this across the industrialized Midwest elected Trump. I have had many arguments with fellow liberals about the globalized economy. In a nutshell, I don't believe in it, if the result is an alienated wasteland where the old working class economy used to be. We, the elite (I…

> Cheap consumer goods from China are not worth this price.

The only answer is to stop buying cheap consumer goods from China (or anywhere, for that matter). Disposal-oriented consumerism is ripping our society (and the world) to shreds.

Re: Educated Fools

#104

Post by benrbray »

InitialLastName wrote: post #96
remir wrote: post #53

Now those of us with postgraduate degrees and who are in the elite of the Democratic Party live in our own Versailles, and we don’t know any working-class people either—except perhaps the name of a barista at Starbucks or the woman who comes by at night to clean the office. I think this is one thing churches did really well; people from all social spheres coming together to serve their God. It didn't matter what job…

Right, except that we've rebuilt a world where working-class people don't have time for leisure activities like amateur athletics and volunteerism due to the second full-time job they need to pay the rent.

Not to mention we've built great walls separating rich and poor in the form of highways, so the classes never share common ground, literally.

Re: Educated Fools

#105

Post by nzmsv »

voxl wrote: post #59
overgard wrote: post #43

I totally agree with the article, but to me the saddest part of all of this is I'm unconvinced that a college education is actually even that useful. (I say that with a four year CS degree). Most majors, to be blunt, are pretty useless in terms of real world skills. The argument is "they teach you how to think". I don't know how you would even measure that, but it doesn't seem that true, especially since colleges are…

This type of concern trolling makes me want to ramp up the "redneck" and "flyover state" rhetoric. If the group of people that idolize Steven Crowder and other PC anti-police can't handle the rhetoric they dish out then let Trump destroy there lives. Because that's the cruel irony, the educated and wealthy are not hurt by Trump nearly as much as the poor white trash are. If you went to University and all you can must…

That's an awful lot of vitriol from someone who can't spell "their" ;)

Re: Educated Fools

#106

Post by overgard »

jayd16 wrote: post #70
overgard wrote: post #43

I totally agree with the article, but to me the saddest part of all of this is I'm unconvinced that a college education is actually even that useful. (I say that with a four year CS degree). Most majors, to be blunt, are pretty useless in terms of real world skills. The argument is "they teach you how to think". I don't know how you would even measure that, but it doesn't seem that true, especially since colleges are…

>I'm unconvinced that a college education is actually even that useful. How is this a question? How many high school grads have you interviewed and thought you could spin them up to the usefulness of a graduate from nothing in a reasonable amount of time/effort? Education is expensive, sure. We can talk about that... but useful? It seems obviously useful to me.

To answer your question: plenty. I've had the pleasure of working with a lot of people without college educations who are great.

Re: Educated Fools

#107

Post by WillDaSilva »

whatsmyusername wrote: post #63

TBH I'm indifferent to the rural working classes plight. I'm LGBT and they've proven time and time again that they aren't my friends (both growing up in flyover country and later after I escaped that wasteland by how they vote and how they treat my brothers and sisters who didn't escape). If they want to vote against our shared interests and suffer the consequences, so be it. Me and mine will keep building without th…

I completely understand your position, and sympathize with it, but it seems a bit shortsighted given that you have to live with these people, and things won't improve for your "brothers and sisters who didn't escape" if things don't get better for them. They'll happily drag you and yours down with them. This is all to say that we're all in this together, and while your indifference towards their plight may be justified, it is not productive.

Re: Educated Fools

#108

Post by almost_usual »

voxl wrote: post #59
overgard wrote: post #43

I totally agree with the article, but to me the saddest part of all of this is I'm unconvinced that a college education is actually even that useful. (I say that with a four year CS degree). Most majors, to be blunt, are pretty useless in terms of real world skills. The argument is "they teach you how to think". I don't know how you would even measure that, but it doesn't seem that true, especially since colleges are…

This type of concern trolling makes me want to ramp up the "redneck" and "flyover state" rhetoric. If the group of people that idolize Steven Crowder and other PC anti-police can't handle the rhetoric they dish out then let Trump destroy there lives. Because that's the cruel irony, the educated and wealthy are not hurt by Trump nearly as much as the poor white trash are. If you went to University and all you can must…

The funny thing is people say “flyover state” and think California is some liberal paradise where they’re safe from crazies and rednecks.

It’s not a flyover issue. It’s in your backyard. I’ve seen confederate flags outside of South Lake Tahoe which makes no sense.

People will get fed up and they’re closer than you think.

Re: Educated Fools

#109

Post by Aperocky »

commandlinefan wrote: post #25
salt-licker wrote: post #15

Great article that exposes many college-educated blind spots, in particular that education is not a panacea for inequality. But the proposed solution of more democratic workplaces — somehow convincing capital-holders that investing in human labor rather than automation is in their own self-interest — feels like swimming against the tide of history. Meritocracy is a dangerous ideal for humanity to continue to hold so…

> nobody’s brain will hold a candle to AI Nobody can outrun a car, either, but cars haven’t made humans obsolete. Instead, we use them as tools to accomplish our goals: just as we will with AI.

We haven’t even made baby steps with AI yet. All electronics as of today have 0 cognitive ability because they are all deterministic in nature. That’s right, exactly 0 cognition.

Re: Educated Fools

#110

Post by drunkpotato »

titanomachy wrote: post #95
tjr225 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I say all of this as someone making over six figures working from home in a situation I could have never imagined myself in ten years ago. I needed my degree; but just to get my foot in the door. I didn't learn much during the process itself other than to recognize the meta fact that I had to do it to get out of my current situation. This would have been a real problem for me financially if it didn't work ou…

It seems that a lot of people feel their degree was not useful. My studies were definitely far removed from what I now do for a living. However, I have not met (except on HN) any successful "knowledge workers" without a degree. I'm sure there are many factors contributing to that: smarter people are more likely to pursue degrees in the first place, companies may ignore otherwise good candidates since they lack a degr…

I did not have a degree in the sciences but I did minor in computer science. I think my degrees are very valuable. It could just be response bias: people happy with their educational experience are quietly satisfied, those unhappy are loudly unsatisfied. Would be my guess. Online responses are not a great sample of the real world.
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