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Educated Fools

newrepublic.com

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Re: Educated Fools

#61

Post by bumby »

analog31 wrote: post #13

In my view, education has begun to act like wealth, because education is a form of wealth, and the productivity divide between wealth and work is increasing. Still, I'm skeptical of the whole idea, because it just seems too convenient for Republicans to drive a wedge between the Democratic party and the working class based on a perceived social division rather than real policy: We took away your unions and safety net…

>education has begun to act like wealth, because education is a form of wealth, and the productivity divide between wealth and work is increasing

You might be interested in reading “The Meritocracy Trap” which discusses how elitism, particularly in regards to education and hyper-competitive productivity, drives inequality. The idea is that this is ultimately worse for both the non-elites who can no longer compete and the elite who must continue to stretch themselves ever thinner to remain competitive.

Re: Educated Fools

#62

Post by [deleted] »

commandlinefan wrote: post #25
salt-licker wrote: post #15

Great article that exposes many college-educated blind spots, in particular that education is not a panacea for inequality. But the proposed solution of more democratic workplaces — somehow convincing capital-holders that investing in human labor rather than automation is in their own self-interest — feels like swimming against the tide of history. Meritocracy is a dangerous ideal for humanity to continue to hold so…

> nobody’s brain will hold a candle to AI Nobody can outrun a car, either, but cars haven’t made humans obsolete. Instead, we use them as tools to accomplish our goals: just as we will with AI.

[deleted]

Re: Educated Fools

#63

Post by whatsmyusername »

TBH I'm indifferent to the rural working classes plight. I'm LGBT and they've proven time and time again that they aren't my friends (both growing up in flyover country and later after I escaped that wasteland by how they vote and how they treat my brothers and sisters who didn't escape).

If they want to vote against our shared interests and suffer the consequences, so be it. Me and mine will keep building without them and I won't spare a moments thought for their self inflicted suffering (except to be glad it isn't me).

Re: Educated Fools

#64

Post by meej »

harimau777 wrote: post #27
sandoooo wrote: post #23

As a society, a portion of the workforce has to do the plumbing, make the furniture, serve coffee, and do all the jobs that don't require college. The people doing those jobs shouldn't need to spending four of their most productive years not working and accumulating debt. They should just start four years earlier, or get vocational training for a few months to a year. Instead of college for all, what's needed is an a…

Those jobs tend not to pay as well as jobs that require a career focused college degree (e.g. business, engineering, computer science, and even teaching).

Unions might be able to do something about that.

Re: Educated Fools

#65

Post by jayd16 »

toasterlovin wrote: post #14
analog31 wrote: post #13

In my view, education has begun to act like wealth, because education is a form of wealth, and the productivity divide between wealth and work is increasing. Still, I'm skeptical of the whole idea, because it just seems too convenient for Republicans to drive a wedge between the Democratic party and the working class based on a perceived social division rather than real policy: We took away your unions and safety net…

The Democratic Party is driving a wedge between itself, FWIW. The talking points around political correctness could not be better designed to alienate working and middle class white people.

>The talking points around political correctness could not be better designed to alienate working and middle class white people.

As a middle class white, I ask "such as?"

Re: Educated Fools

#66

Post by Despegar »

jayd16 wrote: post #60
Despegar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We took away your unions and safety net, but by golly, we'll protect your "dignity." Organized labor may not have been targeted explicitly like by Republicans, but Democrats haven't really been a friend to them either [1]. Both parties have been on board with the neoliberal agenda for 40 years. [1] http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/01/democrats-paid-a-huge...

I would argue social safety nets that Dems do push for (such as healthcare) do benefit the labor class.

Huh? A few years ago Obama/Biden were considering what to do about the "entitlement crisis". The famed Simpson-Bowles commission (unsurprisingly they suggested cuts to Medicare and Social Security) [1]. Only Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren (who waffled on M4A, and subsequently faded in the polls) are trying to expand the social safety net. Meanwhile the DNC is trying to do whatever it can to protect their class interests [2][3].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_on_Fiscal_...

[2] https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/31/dnc-superdelegates-...

[3] https://www.politico.com/news/2020/01/31/dnc-shifts-debate-r...

Re: Educated Fools

#67

Post by hogFeast »

ben_w wrote: post #11
yoz-y wrote: post #9

> We don’t trust them, and would never vote for one of them. Why should they trust or vote for one of us? For the same reason I wouldn’t trust a doctor without a degree proving they did due diligence for years. I know this feels different because “anybody can do politics” but without a large worldview the measures taken will be inevitably short sighted. Now, it works the other way too. As the article states, losing t…

I was thinking about this recently. I’m not qualified in politics, and I’m aware that my knowledge is too limited to be properly aware of how limited it is, but the thought was: Democracy isn’t so much the best form of government as the best steering wheel to keep the government aligned with the interests of the people. The best actual form of government is technocracy, but technocracy with no democratic accountabili…

I am "qualified in politics"...I can tell you that people who are "qualified" think no less bizarre things than people who are not (they are just of a different type).

Stating that there is some kind of qualification suggests, ironically, that you don't understand what politics is. The point is that there is tension, uncertainty (this is a bit like modern views on capitalism...can we have the money but no failure, pls...lul).

Re: Educated Fools

#68

Post by jml7c5 »

baybal2 wrote: post #6

Man, this is gold. I for long tried to write something along those lines, but I think the author did summarise my thoughts better than I could've done myself. The class conflict — something that western literati class keep denying acknowledgement, is really the driver of much of social progress. And this holds more even more true in the West than in the East. The class warfare is there, it exists, and it is what has…

>The class conflict [...] is really the driver of much of social progress.

How so?

Re: Educated Fools

#69

Post by allovernow »

voxl wrote: post #59
overgard wrote: post #43

I totally agree with the article, but to me the saddest part of all of this is I'm unconvinced that a college education is actually even that useful. (I say that with a four year CS degree). Most majors, to be blunt, are pretty useless in terms of real world skills. The argument is "they teach you how to think". I don't know how you would even measure that, but it doesn't seem that true, especially since colleges are…

This type of concern trolling makes me want to ramp up the "redneck" and "flyover state" rhetoric. If the group of people that idolize Steven Crowder and other PC anti-police can't handle the rhetoric they dish out then let Trump destroy there lives. Because that's the cruel irony, the educated and wealthy are not hurt by Trump nearly as much as the poor white trash are. If you went to University and all you can must…

>If the group of people that idolize Steven Crowder and other PC anti-police can't handle the rhetoric they dish out

You realize you're basically just stereotyping half the country, right? These are people with families and friends and communities and jobs. "White trash" is an exceedingly small minority of people who voted for Trump - if they voted at all.

People didn't elect Trump because they're secret closet nazis...but this style of black and white thinking, increasingly common online, was a major contributor.

Re: Educated Fools

#70

Post by jayd16 »

overgard wrote: post #43

I totally agree with the article, but to me the saddest part of all of this is I'm unconvinced that a college education is actually even that useful. (I say that with a four year CS degree). Most majors, to be blunt, are pretty useless in terms of real world skills. The argument is "they teach you how to think". I don't know how you would even measure that, but it doesn't seem that true, especially since colleges are…

>I'm unconvinced that a college education is actually even that useful.

How is this a question? How many high school grads have you interviewed and thought you could spin them up to the usefulness of a graduate from nothing in a reasonable amount of time/effort?

Education is expensive, sure. We can talk about that... but useful? It seems obviously useful to me.

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