Live data from Hacker News

EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

appleinsider.com

411–420 of 525 posts

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now are you saying that you are in favor of Apple’s “Walled garden” to ensure quality? If you are worried about quality cables that must pass some type of certifications doesn’t that argue for proprietary cables where Apple ensures the quality? Shouldn’t in that case Apple lock down cables more?

I'm not saying I'm in favor of anything, just that you bought some cheap unlicensed chinese garbage off of Amazon doesn't prove that Apple doesn't charge a $4/connector license fee. Amazon is well known for selling piles of counterfeit crap

So it’s counterfeit because it’s not license. What do you think is going to happen when you buy cheap USB C cables?

On one one hand, everyone is arguing that Apple’s proprietary cables are cynical attempt to make money and they shouldn’t have that control and people should have the choice.

Now I am showing you they already have that choice.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you have a problem with the government regulating lead out of your chicken noodle soup, too?

Last time I checked, a lightning cable vs USB c didn’t pose a health hazard. The government also made interracial marriage illegal as recently as 50 years ago and same sex relationships illegal as recently as the 80s. You’ll have to excuse me if I’d rather not give the government power unnecessarily.

I do remember the "hard core deregulation" party fighting to keep marriage regulated between one man and one woman.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#413
post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last thing I want is government passing laws to make life “convenient”.

OK, so do you want them to make life harder? Or just sit around? Because I prefer it when they actually do something for the ordinary citizen. Fortunately we didn't have Reagan here in Europe, so we still care about ordinary citizens.

That would actually be great. Should the government also have gotten involved in the VhS/Betamax wars or the Blu-ray/HDDVD format wars.

The government cares most about their own power. It’s naive to think that the government “cares” about anything besides being re-elected.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#414
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t buy iPhones for the cables. I don’t like the needlessly proprietary cable and I actually put that on the list of reasons not to upgrade to a newer iPhone. When I look at switching to Android I weigh the crappy Apple cable against the loss of privacy of moving to Android. The iPhone wins. Just.

Amazing how free will works isn’t it? You as a competent adult are able to judge products and make decisions about tradeoffs and you didn’t need the government to help you do it. If Apple saw that enough customers switch to Android because of the cable they would change - free markets are amazing.

Hang on though, the point is that the market isn’t able to address this issue.

There aren’t two platforms with equal privacy available but differing power connectors.

I’m forced to prioritise privacy over proprietary connectivity.

If all things were equal then I could vote with my wallet and I’m sure the market would fix this... but all things aren’t equal so market isn’t going to solve this problem.

In that situation you need an external authority to set a standard.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#415
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they want to force Apple's hand specifically, they should be focusing on the port on the phone, not the charger. It's worth remembering that the backers of the EU legislation started with the idea of reducing e-waste, not punishing a particular manufacturer. Nor is it a Lightning vs USB-C squabble. Getting people to throw their lightning cables, charging ports, docking stations, etc away would be counter-product…

The Lightning port has been around for a long time and getting rid of that will cause significant e-waste. From personal experience, Lightning already produces significant e-waste. The lack of strain relief means that my family experiences many broken Lightning cables each year.

That's not a Lightning thing, that's an Apple thing. Most of their cables suffer the same problem.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU isn't legislating USB-C, it's demanding that the industry standards body have a common standard for charging, and continue to develop it as a common standard. The manufacturers are going to be collaborating on the specs. It will be like TCP/IP, DNS, UTF and many other things.

But why does the EU bureaucracy know that charging ports cannot be an important part of product differentiation? I would hope they wouldn’t legislate a common screen size or a common operating system... why legislate a common charging port? I STRONGLY prefer Lightning and would hope that people who prefer Lightning like me can buy Apple and people who prefer USB-C can buy Android.

To me it's the same as fridges and TVs. I should be able to buy a common cable that plugs into a Samsung or an LG TV and the same for an Apple or Google phone.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#417
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. The industry was developing USB and standardized it for power before the EU Commission started caring about this. What happened would have happened anyway due to economies of scale.

Development of a standard does not nearly equate to deployment of a standard. There are open standards for instant communication. How many proprietary protocols and implementations exist? How many are so widely adopted? Contrast that with open ones. There’s quite a lot of money in peripherals; it’s also a neat way of obsoleting older phones. Broken custom chargers were usually the reason I stopped using a phone; mean…

Deployment of USB was happening anyway. I don't understand this belief that the Commission has anything to do with USB adoption. It predates the Commissions's involvement by a long way, USB was developed completely independently and the vast majority of consumer electronics firms see no competitive advantage in making their own chargers/cables so standardisation was the direction of travel anyway. Only Apple bother developing their own proprietary charging and cable standards, and as they proved, the regulation is toothless: they simply shipped a cheap adapter nobody cared about or used and that was the regulation solved.

I think there's a lot of backwards reasoning here. Lots of people want to believe the EU is good, therefore, if it does something, it must be good. This kind of nitpicky regulation is worthless: if there had been genuine, fierce competition over cable systems the EU would never have dared to regulate in the first place. It was only because the industry was standardising anyway that they were able to pass such a rule, and take credit for other people's engineering work.

As for open vs closed communication standards, that's a red herring. Lots of firms have had unusual ideas about how to advance consumer communications, which is why we mostly use their products (with the obvious and major exceptions of the web and email). But in charging standards and many other areas people realised their efforts were best pooled. Government had no impact on these decisions but can certainly now impede innovations if someone does come up with some revolutionary new cable idea.

Look at it this way. If this regulation had applied to computers pre-Steve Jobs we might never have seen MagSafe cables. They'd have been literally illegal which is insane. The EU is way out of bounds here. It's the sort of thing that supported the case of Brexit - celebrated last night.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How “hefty” can the license fee be when you can buy a pack of five lightning cables for $14? https://www.amazon.com/Charger-AYNGWRNB-Certified-Lightning-... But if Apple is being “abusive” by having proprietary hardware, does that mean they should also force Nintendo to use standard media for the Switch? Should they also force Apple to allow iPhones to run a more standard operating system?

I guarantee you that those cables are faking the MFi authentication chip. Counterfeit cables aren't really an apt comparison.

We can argue about how many pins are on the head of a needle or we can be more practical and admit that anyone can get a cheap lightning cable from anywhere and that you don’t need the government to insinuate itself in every area of our life unnecessarily.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#419
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing how free will works isn’t it? You as a competent adult are able to judge products and make decisions about tradeoffs and you didn’t need the government to help you do it. If Apple saw that enough customers switch to Android because of the cable they would change - free markets are amazing.

Hang on though, the point is that the market isn’t able to address this issue. There aren’t two platforms with equal privacy available but differing power connectors. I’m forced to prioritise privacy over proprietary connectivity. If all things were equal then I could vote with my wallet and I’m sure the market would fix this... but all things aren’t equal so market isn’t going to solve this problem. In that situatio…

Because a government full of people who know nothing about technology must be the right answer. What other areas of the iPhone should the government force Apple to standardize? FaceTime? AirDrop? iOS itself?

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#420

I'm with Apple on this one. Apple has kept working on improving the charging experience for its phones over time. The original iPhone cable, then lightning, then wireless charging. This stifles innovation. Also: doesn't the government have more pressing concerns to worry about? I doubt Apple's lobbying against this for some nefarious reason, like locking users into their proprietary technology.

I'm with you and Apple on this, this is the kind of law that is abusive and hinders innovation. This is the stupid kind of law that was voted in hyper bureaucracies such as the Soviet Union. In fact I have hard time believing the EU is "liberal" at that point, it's just a new elite trying to find reasons to sustain itself and grow out of proportion. *

The majority of phones use (micro) USB for charging, only Apple and a few others use a different format, and people who can afford Apple devices can afford buying a charger just for that device.

Post reply on HN