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EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

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Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#261

Post by kalleboo »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #30

I'm not sure how I feel about the requirements to unify the cables, but does the Lightening port offer advantages does over USB-C?

Lightning is actually worse in most ways. For instance, it doesn't have the bandwidth to transmit even 1080p video uncompressed (USB-C can do 4K - one reason they put USB-C on the iPad Pro).

The only debatable advantages to Lightning are in the physical form factor, but that's hard to quantify (you mostly hear anecdotes "my USB-C port is a bit loose after 6 months" which could just come down to manufacturing quality rather than the design of the port itself)

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#262

Post by Twixes »

scarface74 wrote: post #187
sho_hn wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I carry two phones, my private Android phone (my personal preference) and an iPhone imposed on me by work. Not having to bother with two sets of cables would be a welcome improvement. As for "not moving the needle", every little thing sums up. Also, it's not just the cables - manufacturing lines, shelf space, redundant labor, ...

So because it would be more convenient for you we need government intervention?

Making life convenient is kind of one of the things that governments should do for their citizens. And intervention is the only way to make that XKCD strip about standards not true.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#263

Post by DangitBobby »

GeekyBear wrote: post #94
SiempreViernes wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, in summary, the cable Apple gives you works with other manufacturers chargers, and the charger Apple gives you works with other phones, using a standard USB-C cable that, I would imagine, came with the phone. The point is you still need extra stuff just to charge your phone when you switch manufacturer. So what apple provides is in fact not a "common charger", but merely a transformer+rectifier that, using addi…

You don't need anything but the cable that came with your phone.

Aren't these cables notorious for fraying and breaking?

https://frayedlightningcables.tumblr.com/

Anecdotally, my friends' cables always seem to be frayed. I personally have not owned an apple phone in many years, but I recently bought an apple brand usb-c to 3.5mm adapter at an airport because that's all they had and I forgot mine at home... It stopped working after about a month of very gentle use. It's in perfect physical condition.

The point is, if you have to keep replacing them, it's not a reduction in e-waste and runs counter to the spirit of the ruling.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#264

Post by Kliment »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #153
gpm wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can always not connect the data wires to the port.

Then you can't use USB-PD protocol and only get the gimped resistor-based current negotiation.

USB-PD doesn't use the data wires (dp/dn or the two high speed diffpairs), it uses a sidechannel (CC). You can have a full PD implementation without a host controller or any data connection.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#265

Post by Kliment »

barney54 wrote: post #202
perl4ever wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Today it's phones, tomorrow it's electric cars. The slippery slope could be a feature and not a bug.

It’s already like that for electric cars. See Tesla’s Superchargers.

Tesla vehicles (and their superchargers) use standard connectors in the EU.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#266

Post by [deleted] »

veeralpatel979 wrote: post #127

I'm with Apple on this one. Apple has kept working on improving the charging experience for its phones over time. The original iPhone cable, then lightning, then wireless charging. This stifles innovation. Also: doesn't the government have more pressing concerns to worry about? I doubt Apple's lobbying against this for some nefarious reason, like locking users into their proprietary technology.

[deleted]

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#267

Post by mianos »

_bxg1 wrote: post #125

I'm not someone who's shy about regulation, but even I think this is totally unnecessary. As an Apple user, I should be the first to complain about their own internal (inexplicable) lack of a standard (Lightning for phones, USB-C for everything else). It's annoying, sure, but it's far from a material burden on my quality of life. Is this really the problem we need to be spending our regulatory energies on in 2020?

The EU regulatory bodies are full time fully funded bodies whose job is to keep developing regulations. It is not like you and I who are trying solve each problem as it comes up and move on. Their job is to find problems to solve first. If they get harder and harder to find they look harder and harder or lower the bar.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#268

Post by djannzjkzxn »

DangitBobby wrote: post #263
GeekyBear wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need anything but the cable that came with your phone.

Aren't these cables notorious for fraying and breaking? https://frayedlightningcables.tumblr.com/ Anecdotally, my friends' cables always seem to be frayed. I personally have not owned an apple phone in many years, but I recently bought an apple brand usb-c to 3.5mm adapter at an airport because that's all they had and I forgot mine at home... It stopped working after about a month of very gentle use. It's in perfect…

Is this any better than the cables that come with non-Apple devices? I’m skeptical.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#269

Post by djannzjkzxn »

monocasa wrote: post #182
judge2020 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22204605

The rule was in place ten years ago. That's why every other manufacturer ships USB now, and even Apple puts USB on one side of their charger cord in malicious compliance.

I’ve been using lightning happily since my non-Apple devices were coming with broken micro USB cables. As a consumer I’ve been very happy with this. There’s nothing malicious about it.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#270

Post by djannzjkzxn »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #83
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. You make a good point. In my attempt at reading both of these there seems to be a clear distinction being made when it refers to cables and when it refers to chargers. It also never really mentions ports. Therefore, to me, it cares less about the port and cable on the phone half and more about the brick / part that plugs into the wall. Neither document provides a definition for "charger". So perhaps whoever is i…

I read "charger" to mean "the thing you use for charging", and not really bothering with the technical detail of exactly how this thing is made. I think reading the texts as if they spoke only of the transformer/brick itself is to narrow, and not in line with the common understanding of what a "charger" is. I will offer this suggestion of a precise definition for "charger": the complete technological assemblage requi…

You can define the charger to include the cable, and I can define the phone to include the cable. Either way it doesn’t provide much insight into the definitions with legal force.
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