Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

appleinsider.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 525 posts

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#201

Post by Agustus »

A great way to stifle innovation.

Apple has been trying out cables and transfer types over the years (thunderbolt, CD-ROM, USB, wireless) and they do it on the backs of the luxury users, not too far off from what the luxury car makers in testing what to propagate downstream.

Apple has set a standard to use their cable format, which works. If you go through the litany of USB-B there were power issues, transfer rates, and a whole host of other items that, while it met the standard, did not work. An example is my Barnes & Noble Nook needing a special cable to work with the PC; it was USB-B, but not using the right transfer and power source rendered cables useless for interface.

If anyone can say the roll out of USB-C has been better, even with the “standard” then there have been a number of articles on here that have pointed to fake cables, horrible QC and other items.

So, a government agency has taken the draconian step of forcing a standard, one which will be helpful for the European companies that produce phones and people wonder why there is so much money in politics.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#202

Post by barney54 »

perl4ever wrote: post #184
veeralpatel979 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but why is it so bad to let companies choose what charging cables they provide? You get a free charging cable usually when you purchase a new phone and charging cables are cheap. I get the environment argument but I don't see how this moves the needle on protecting the environment. If anything it could scare off tech companies from developing charging cables that are better for the environment.

Today it's phones, tomorrow it's electric cars. The slippery slope could be a feature and not a bug.

It’s already like that for electric cars. See Tesla’s Superchargers.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#203

Post by ClumsyPilot »

filoleg wrote: post #163
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard can be changed, it's just that manufacturers have to agree between themselves on the new standard. No involvement from the government is required. They can make USB 4, 5,6, connector C, D,E,Z, whatever. That's fine. What's not cool, is creating proprietary connector and not letting anyone else use it. Mind you they only have to agree on charging, not data transfer. As to whether it's worth it: hard to te…

>The standard can be changed, it's just that manufacturers have to agree between themselves on the new standard. If an agreement of all manufacturers is needed before introducing a new standard in production, it means that it will be delayed by the lowest common denominator of manufacturers until many years later. Which isn't good for the consumer, because they could've gotten a new superior charging standard on thei…

My argument is that charging is at this point a mature technology, we have a charging standard up to 100w. Do you expect future phones to draw more? What possible improvements could future charging standard have, as far as a mobile phone goes?

And yes, it is pretty normal to have manufacturers sit round a table and agree standards -most ports on a computer, 4g wireless, etc.

You cant even come up with your own phone communication standard - countries allocate frequency specifically for 4g or 5g, none will give you a frequency band for a proprietary communication standard.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#204

Post by mthoms »

scarface74 wrote: post #189
alt_f4 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time you are buying a charger, wired headphones or any other iPhone accessory, Apple collects a hefty license fee and you, indirectly, are paying it. Originally, the lightning port was a big improvement over existing tech. Currently though, the only reason the lightning port still exists is because it is a good way for Apple to use their market dominant position to milk consumers. It is not good for consumers,…

How “hefty” can the license fee be when you can buy a pack of five lightning cables for $14? https://www.amazon.com/Charger-AYNGWRNB-Certified-Lightning-... But if Apple is being “abusive” by having proprietary hardware, does that mean they should also force Nintendo to use standard media for the Switch? Should they also force Apple to allow iPhones to run a more standard operating system?

Fully 40% of those reviews are 1-star reviews (mostly due to the cables not working out of the box, or failing after a short time).

I get the feeling these aren't legitimately certified.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#205

Post by ClumsyPilot »

scarface74 wrote: post #193
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standard can be changed, it's just that manufacturers have to agree between themselves on the new standard. No involvement from the government is required. They can make USB 4, 5,6, connector C, D,E,Z, whatever. That's fine. What's not cool, is creating proprietary connector and not letting anyone else use it. Mind you they only have to agree on charging, not data transfer. As to whether it's worth it: hard to te…

Wow so now every time that Apple gets ready to introduce a new connector they have to wait for the entire industry to agree to it? But guess what? Only the end connecting to the wall is standard, the end connecting to devices in the house are far from standard. How is this different than iPhones?

I am not sure I understand your argument "my toaster does not have a standard connector, so neither should my iphone"? I mean, maybe they should, or maybe none cares to regulate toasters. Or maybe its only relevant to portable electronics, so laptops should have them but toasters shouldn't.

Think a bit broader - if apple wants to introduce a new phone communication standard, like 5g but different? It can't - frequencies are allocated for a specific purpose, and none will give you any for a proprietary protocol only you control.

This is not such a revolutionary idea if you look at a broader picture

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#206

Post by akersten »

scarface74 wrote: post #195
radicaldreamer wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple isn't going to change to USB-C anytime soon for iPhones because they make a significant amount of money with the MFI program (~$4/connector), the vast majority of which comes from lightning accessories.

If they made $4 a connector, how pray tell can I get a 5 pack of lightning cords from Amazon for $10? https://www.amazon.com/Charger-AYNGWRNB-Certified-Lightning-...

Occam's razor would indicate that those too-good-to-be-true cables by a no-name Amazon seller are probably not genuine.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#207

Post by ClumsyPilot »

scarface74 wrote: post #194
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a technology matures, at some point standartisation becomes more important than innovation. Power distribution, wall sockets and fire safety, fire hydrant connections were all unregulated and subject to innovation at some point. A fire engine from a different city could not connect to your water supply. At some point we decided that it wont do. We are gradually arriving to that point in software.

Wall sockets are standard - but what about the other end?

My point is that at this point, benefits of standartisation outweight benefits of marginal innovation.

What are you actually saying? "if a toaster doesn't work off USB C, neither should an iPhone have to?

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#208

Post by fiter »

wyattpeak wrote: post #190
veeralpatel979 wrote: post #127

I'm with Apple on this one. Apple has kept working on improving the charging experience for its phones over time. The original iPhone cable, then lightning, then wireless charging. This stifles innovation. Also: doesn't the government have more pressing concerns to worry about? I doubt Apple's lobbying against this for some nefarious reason, like locking users into their proprietary technology.

I think Apple genuinely believe that they can provide a better product, and I believe they can too. I just don't care. The inability to borrow cables or swap them between devices in the past was a not insignificant hassle. Keeping boxes of cables, not being able to borrow a friend's charger when visiting, not being able to replace cables except by ordering a new one from the manufacturer half a world away. Constant m…

Maybe it doesn't matter to most people anymore, but these ports are for more than charging. This regulation could stifle using this port for other features. That said, it's pretty obvious where everything is going (wireless), so it's not clear to me that this regulation will matter too much either way.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#209

Post by scarface74 »

akersten wrote: post #206
scarface74 wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they made $4 a connector, how pray tell can I get a 5 pack of lightning cords from Amazon for $10? https://www.amazon.com/Charger-AYNGWRNB-Certified-Lightning-...

Occam's razor would indicate that those too-good-to-be-true cables by a no-name Amazon seller are probably not genuine.

I’ve ordered them, they work.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#210

Post by scarface74 »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #207
scarface74 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wall sockets are standard - but what about the other end?

My point is that at this point, benefits of standartisation outweight benefits of marginal innovation. What are you actually saying? "if a toaster doesn't work off USB C, neither should an iPhone have to?

I’m saying that the analogy is flawed. There has never been a mandate or standard for the device end of a power cord.
Post reply on HN