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Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

sciencemag.org

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Re: Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

#111
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The community is dying. I’ve been here since 2013. Lobste.rs is currently the place to be but it’s small and is only for programming topics.

Lobste.rs looks cool but I see you can only join if you're invited by an existing member. Would you mind sending one to me, or letting me know where I can go about getting one? :) edward [dot] haigh [at] iohk [dot] io

I’ve reviewed your comment history and was pleased with the technical stuff and lack of flaming. Expect an invite in the next 24 hours

Re: Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

#112
The idea of this being an engineered virus wittingly unleashed on the world by some malevolent Party conspirators strains credulity--the notion is preposterous, especially from a country as obsessed with internal stability as China.

However, the Wuhan pathogen research laboratory is still a worthy source to consider relating to this virus. Accidents DO happen, and China has a history of making mistakes leading to dangerous pathogens escaping their labs.

In 2004, SARS escaped a BS-3 lab in Beijing, infecting several and killing at least one:

" In April 2004, China reported a case of SARS in a nurse who had cared for a researcher at the Chinese National Institute of Virology. While ill, the researcher had traveled twice by train from Beijing to Anhui province, where she was nursed by her mother, a physician, who fell ill and died. The nurse in turn infected five third-generation cases, causing no deaths.

Subsequent investigation uncovered three unrelated laboratory infections in different researchers at the NIV. At least of two primary patients had never worked with live SARS virus. Many shortcomings in biosecurity were found at the NIV, and the specific cause of the outbreak was traced to an inadequately inactivated preparation of SARS virus that was used in general (that is, not biosecure) laboratory areas, including one where the primary cases worked. It had not been tested to confirm its safety after inactivation, as it should have been."

https://slate.com/technology/2014/04/how-dangerous-viruses-c...

Were a lab accident the source of this outbreak, you can bet your last dollar that the CCP would go to extreme lengths to hide that fact.

Re: Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

#113

The idea of this being an engineered virus wittingly unleashed on the world by some malevolent Party conspirators strains credulity--the notion is preposterous, especially from a country as obsessed with internal stability as China. However, the Wuhan pathogen research laboratory is still a worthy source to consider relating to this virus. Accidents DO happen, and China has a history of making mistakes leading to dan…

For more recent, though more vague, evidence that China may not share the same views on handling extremely dangerous pathogens as the rest of the world, we have this story from July 2019, wherein a Chinese researcher working in one of Canada's BS-4 labs, along with her husband who was a SARS researcher, as well as several students she brought over from China to work with her, were all given the boot over unspecified "administrative matters".

The University later severed all ties with her and her crew.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/chinese-researcher-e...

The article speculates that this was related to IP theft of some kind, which seems strange considering the lab's work was all in the public domain--what's to steal?

This happened about six months ago, and four months before the Coronavirus broke. Is this at all related? Maybe, maybe not.

Re: Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

#114
post #84
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modified, not synthetic.

A couple of days ago I posted a link to the BLASTN sequence alignment between the 2003 SARS virus and the Wuhan virus in a comment on one of the other discussions here. You can see they are closely related, at about 88% sequence identity. There are point mutations spread more or less evenly over the entire genome. This is how evolution works on genomes, and basically rules out genetic engineering, since researchers w…

> The amount of pseudoscience being peddled for attention or thrills in these threads is getting really worrying to me, I had expected something totally different from this community. :/

I believe this is generally the case with most topics outside the standard focus of this site (which I would posit is computers generally). There tends to be a mixture of intelligent, accurate commentary, and intelligent but misled commentary (and my observers bias would further distort the separation between those two categories). It tends to get better as discussion continues, but not always.

That said, this topic is more likely to be sensationalized than most.

Re: Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

#115
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The community is dying. I’ve been here since 2013. Lobste.rs is currently the place to be but it’s small and is only for programming topics.

Lobste.rs looks cool but I see you can only join if you're invited by an existing member. Would you mind sending one to me, or letting me know where I can go about getting one? :) edward [dot] haigh [at] iohk [dot] io

Do you need biotech people?

Re: Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

#116

The idea of this being an engineered virus wittingly unleashed on the world by some malevolent Party conspirators strains credulity--the notion is preposterous, especially from a country as obsessed with internal stability as China. However, the Wuhan pathogen research laboratory is still a worthy source to consider relating to this virus. Accidents DO happen, and China has a history of making mistakes leading to dan…

For more recent, though more vague, evidence that China may not share the same views on handling extremely dangerous pathogens as the rest of the world, we have this story from July 2019, wherein a Chinese researcher working in one of Canada's BS-4 labs, along with her husband who was a SARS researcher, as well as several students she brought over from China to work with her, were all given the boot over unspecified…

https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/questions-surroun...

Re: Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

#117
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't read anything in the posted article that indicates that the China-based researchers think it came from a lab or looks synthetic. So I didn't understand why you are responding to a claim that they aren't making.

Lots of posts in this thread were making the claim about the lab. They’re less upvoted now.

Thank you for clarifying this! I will rescind my downvotes

Re: Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

#118
post #84
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modified, not synthetic.

A couple of days ago I posted a link to the BLASTN sequence alignment between the 2003 SARS virus and the Wuhan virus in a comment on one of the other discussions here. You can see they are closely related, at about 88% sequence identity. There are point mutations spread more or less evenly over the entire genome. This is how evolution works on genomes, and basically rules out genetic engineering, since researchers w…

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.26.920249v1

Re: Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

#119
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't read anything in the posted article that indicates that the China-based researchers think it came from a lab or looks synthetic. So I didn't understand why you are responding to a claim that they aren't making.

The virology lab thing is a very popular conspiracy theory. Really the only evidence is that the virus started in the general viscinity of the lab, and that the lab was (somewhat vaguely, but not completely implausibly) suspected of doing bioweapons research. It's worth rebutting. The nonsense is a little out of control.

You know? I thought about your 'nonsense' and recalled something rather old in 'internet time'.

Anyways, i just searched for russian bio lab accident and this came up first: https://arstechnica.com/science/2016/11/decades-after-deadly...

I'm sure there is more to find about that, but for the purpose of rebutting your nonsense i deem it sufficient.

What do i mean by that? The theories aren't unfounded when looking back, because they happened! It doesn't really matter where, when, by whom, and what exactly. Just that it did happen multiple times.

Cheers.

edit: Well, it even has a wikipedia article if you prefer that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverdlovsk_anthrax_leak

Re: Wuhan seafood market may not be source of novel virus spreading globally

#120

The idea of this being an engineered virus wittingly unleashed on the world by some malevolent Party conspirators strains credulity--the notion is preposterous, especially from a country as obsessed with internal stability as China. However, the Wuhan pathogen research laboratory is still a worthy source to consider relating to this virus. Accidents DO happen, and China has a history of making mistakes leading to dan…

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