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EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

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Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#131

Post by outoftheabyss »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #58
martin-adams wrote: post #37

Let’s say this rule was in place 10 years ago and we standardised on micro USB. How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of technology like USB-C. This feels that it’s banking on USB-C being forever future proofed or wireless connections does everything we ever need.

Why? The resolution states that the commission should make sure the standard can be updated as technology develops: "[...] the Commission, without hampering innovation, should ensure that the legislative framework for a common charger will be scrutinised regularly in order to take into account technical progress; reiterates the importance of research and innovation in this domain to improve existing technologies and…

This removes the incentives to innovate though. If you are found to have created the latest innovation surely there’s only two outcomes: either you can’t go to market or you are compelled to allow competitors to piggy back off of your technology en masse

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#132

Post by ClumsyPilot »

nemothekid wrote: post #33
falcolas wrote: post #28

The iPad Pro uses a usb c charger, as does the MacBook line; stifles innovation my ass.

As far as I remember, this piece of legislation has been floating around since USB mini. We have now gone through 2 revisions to a connector that is now reversible and can carry video. Locking onto USB-C now could be a very "640k ought to be enough for everybody" moment. And if Apple was going to switch to USB C anyways, whats the point of this legislation?

You are misunderstanding. The idea is that manufacturers are free to do USb D, E... Z, they just have to all agree on whatever is their next thing.

It also is just a charger, they can do whatever they want with data.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#133

Post by monocasa »

eanzenberg wrote: post #119
monocasa wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas the entire point of the regulation is to not need the cord that came with your phone, but to use anyone's. They got tired of all the proprietary connectors back in the feature phone days.

So they missed the boat by 15 years?

They passed this 15 years ago.

They gave apple the benefit of the doubt with the 30 pin connector and lightning that apple was going to make them standards, apple hasn't made that happen, so now the EU is saying they have to use an actual standard.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#134

Post by bpfrh »

eanzenberg wrote: post #119
monocasa wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas the entire point of the regulation is to not need the cord that came with your phone, but to use anyone's. They got tired of all the proprietary connectors back in the feature phone days.

So they missed the boat by 15 years?

AFAIK that is the directive that that was already planned years ago.

I remember many years ago there was a new charger for each version(!) of a phone, so the EU said either the companies choose a common port voluntary or they will regulate them.

That was 2009 shortly after that every major phone provider switched to micro usb, except of course apple.

2014 the first regulation was voted and should have went in effect 2017.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#135

Post by jakear »

joezydeco wrote: post #113
pwinnski wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is already using USB-C on the bit that plugs into the wall, so if that's all this is, it's nothing. Apple has protested this, so it seems like it must be more.

What is Apple is heading toward completely sealed phones with only wireless charging / data xfer and they’re nervous that the EU is going to force them to keep the physical port on the device?

I wonder what that will do for security. It seems the publicly known exploits tend to use the wired connection to swipe data from the phone. It would likely be much more difficult to do that wirelessly. It would be a shame to lose the potential hardening benefits because of some lawmakers who may not have privacy as a core interest... or indeed quite the opposite.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#136

Post by m463 »

veeralpatel979 wrote: post #127

I'm with Apple on this one. Apple has kept working on improving the charging experience for its phones over time. The original iPhone cable, then lightning, then wireless charging. This stifles innovation. Also: doesn't the government have more pressing concerns to worry about? I doubt Apple's lobbying against this for some nefarious reason, like locking users into their proprietary technology.

Note that Apple adopted Qi wireless charging.

At that point my purchases of lightning cables stopped after I was able to take advantage of it.

> I doubt Apple's lobbying against this for some nefarious reason

Apple always, always fights for control. It is not nefarious per se, but it is usually at the (literal) expense of their customers.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#137

Post by monocasa »

ashildr wrote: post #130
monocasa wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereas the entire point of the regulation is to not need the cord that came with your phone, but to use anyone's. They got tired of all the proprietary connectors back in the feature phone days.

So what specific kind of USB-C cable will be allowed to be packed with my next shiny for the decades to come? What kind of USB-PD will the phone be allowed to support and - if the phone supports a higher voltage/amperage combination than the EU fixed in 2020 - will I have to buy an additional cable to support this? How did we ever switch from SCART to HDMI after the EU forced the TV manufacturers to only support SCAR…

They had no problem allowing USB-C quickly, why would the next one be different?

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#138

Post by bpfrh »

_bxg1 wrote: post #125

I'm not someone who's shy about regulation, but even I think this is totally unnecessary. As an Apple user, I should be the first to complain about their own internal (inexplicable) lack of a standard (Lightning for phones, USB-C for everything else). It's annoying, sure, but it's far from a material burden on my quality of life. Is this really the problem we need to be spending our regulatory energies on in 2020?

Yes, because that regulation effort started ten years ago and led to less ewaste, something which we can all agree is good.

Remember the time each new phone model had a new charger?

And you had to replace the whole charger if the cable was broken?

That changed because ten years ago the EU forced the companies to change their way and I think it didn't stiffle innovation but made developing a good standard even more important which lead to usb C.

Of course it should be the default to keep it that way, but it seems companies need to have someone looking over their shoulders and regulate them to be sane.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#139

Post by alt_f4 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #129
alt_f4 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time you are buying a charger, wired headphones or any other iPhone accessory, Apple collects a hefty license fee and you, indirectly, are paying it. Originally, the lightning port was a big improvement over existing tech. Currently though, the only reason the lightning port still exists is because it is a good way for Apple to use their market dominant position to milk consumers. It is not good for consumers,…

That makes sense, but usually they aren't so blatant about that sort of thing; usually there's some sort of pretense at least. Especially given how "brave" they've been about pushing USB-C on their laptops; I'd have more sympathy for that if they were at least self-consistent. But still, despite all of this salt I don't think it warrants legislation.

I do somewhat agree that it is govt overreach.

I think a more appropriate tool would be launching an investigation into why they've stuck with lightning when everyone else (including their other products!) use USB-C. That should essentially prove there is no good reason, other than making money off licensing, without regard to damaging the environment or exploiting the consumer. So they should get a giant fine for it and stop doing it.

But I don't believe there is the legal framework for the EU to do that, so they're trying to get the outcome they want using the tools that they have.

Re: EU lawmakers snub Apple's pleas, vote to push for charging cable standard

#140

Post by ClumsyPilot »

martin-adams wrote: post #37

Let’s say this rule was in place 10 years ago and we standardised on micro USB. How would it have been possible to advance to the next generation of technology like USB-C. This feels that it’s banking on USB-C being forever future proofed or wireless connections does everything we ever need.

The standard can be changed, it's just that manufacturers have to agree between themselves on the new standard. No involvement from the government is required.

They can make USB 4, 5,6, connector C, D,E,Z, whatever. That's fine. What's not cool, is creating proprietary connector and not letting anyone else use it.

Mind you they only have to agree on charging, not data transfer.

As to whether it's worth it: hard to tell, there comes a time in a technology's maturity where compliance with a common standard is more important than incremental innovation. The power sockets in your house are dtandard, and your power company and electrician are not allowed to innovate, because at some point we decided compatability was more important.

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