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Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

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Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#681

Post by astura »

rayiner wrote: post #653
rayuela wrote: post #51

Encourage people to participate in physical social gatherings that center around non-political issues, like hobbies. We need to start emphasizing what we have in common, help people see that ultimately we're really not all that different from each other. The internet lets people hide behind this isolating veneer that makes it too easy to just shout at each other and behave in extreme ways that would never be socially…

[flagged]

Oh please, politics are an extremely important part of organized religion, at least in the United States.

Also "chosing not to participate" is not the same as "systematically destroying."

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#682

Post by UnpossibleJim »

rayiner wrote: post #653
rayuela wrote: post #51

Encourage people to participate in physical social gatherings that center around non-political issues, like hobbies. We need to start emphasizing what we have in common, help people see that ultimately we're really not all that different from each other. The internet lets people hide behind this isolating veneer that makes it too easy to just shout at each other and behave in extreme ways that would never be socially…

[flagged]

No offense or anything (or maybe offense, I don't know) but it wasn't "The Liberals" who systematically destroyed religion. A whole lot of the downfall of religion (which hasn't fallen, by the way) was predicated on religious institutions eating themselves from the inside out. Think about the excesses of the Christian churches of the west, based on the teachings of a man who taught forgiveness and the moral wrongs of excess. Think about the Bhuddist monasteries in the east who have fallen to, what can only be described as gang wars over the best tithing lands. The Shia and the Suffi try to kill each other over supposed differences in Muhammad's teachings. Churches did a fine job of destroying religion, long before people started blaming Liberals.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#683

Post by FillardMillmore »

rayiner wrote: post #653
rayuela wrote: post #51

Encourage people to participate in physical social gatherings that center around non-political issues, like hobbies. We need to start emphasizing what we have in common, help people see that ultimately we're really not all that different from each other. The internet lets people hide behind this isolating veneer that makes it too easy to just shout at each other and behave in extreme ways that would never be socially…

[flagged]

Does it not seem somewhat disingenuous to lay the blame for the dip in religious affiliation and the rise of secularism entirely on liberals? Could the internet and increased access to conflicting information have played a role?

Not to mention the irony of addressing the toxicity and polarization of the internet by adding yet more toxicity and polarization.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#684

Post by aneesh297 »

rayiner wrote: post #653
rayuela wrote: post #51

Encourage people to participate in physical social gatherings that center around non-political issues, like hobbies. We need to start emphasizing what we have in common, help people see that ultimately we're really not all that different from each other. The internet lets people hide behind this isolating veneer that makes it too easy to just shout at each other and behave in extreme ways that would never be socially…

[flagged]

While I'm not sure I agree with your point about liberals "destroying" organized religion, I agree that churches (and other place of worship) unite local communities and the members look after one another.

We should really be putting far more effort into building similar non-religious communities. Things like book clubs, hiking clubs, or anything that involves shared interests.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#686

Post by anigbrowl »

djsumdog wrote: post #456
marbletiles wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The data suggests that deplatforming works. Milo; Katie Hopkins; InfoWars et al have all lost their former agenda-setting influence following deplatforming. And studies have shown that banning hate sub-Reddits does _not_ cause that content to “pop up elsewhere”, it causes it to decline overall. It’s important to remember too there are incentives for people to argue and behave otherwise: FB, Twitter, hate-speech monge…

You realize Voat exists right? And Gab? I wrote this about how Voat grew: https://battlepenguin.com/tech/voat-what-went-wrong/ Deplatforming was a big part of that. Deplatforming didn't stop Milo. His base dropped him because he started defending hebeaphiles & pedophile / men being attracted to teens/pre-teens/boys (there's actually something sadder here; with Milo not realizing he was himself abused ... there's an e…

That's OK. People do move to platforms like Gab, but those platforms tend to be echo chambers in their own which has a limiting effect on their popularity in addition to the limiting factor of their initial toxicity.

They're not really good for recruitment (because they're echo chambers that only appeal to people already invested in a point of view), nor do they provide much amusement from baiting other people with very different opinions; these two factors are in stark contrast to mainstream platforms, which provide an abundant supply of both.

Naturally, you get cross-platform raiding where people organize on one platform to attack another and then enjoy the spoils if their attack results in upset, outrage, bans of the target etc. But off-platform raids are relatively easy for platform operators and target populations to monitor, detect, and repel. Likewise, the extremist or highly toxic platforms that people do congregate on function well for a policy of managed containment.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#687

Post by pnako »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #581
kerkeslager wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're proposing sounds uncomfortably like totalitarianism.

No it doesn’t. I’m just totally comfortable with a world in which people are educated enough to no longer have to consume these industrial lie factories.

Who gets to decide what's true and good and what's not? You?

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#688

Post by soheil »

I think a "just let it happen" attitude like Google Adsense's with fake clicks problem may be the solution. Google at one point decided instead of fighting bots and publisher's tactics to click on their own ads decided to allow the fake clicks reasoning that if the actual person click on the ad is not going to buy a product the ROI of the ad would drop on that particular publisher's website. Over time the system would correct for itself and just show fewer ads on that site or lower its cost per click for ads shown on it, hence solving the fake click problem in a clever way.

I think if we employ the same tactic and let polarization happen online there will be communities where the ROI of discussions drops exponentially and there will be places where less of that stuff happens for whatever reason and they will be the truly engaging places to hang out online.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#689

Post by WingTipTheSpick »

vitaflo wrote: post #550
scott_paul wrote: post #214

It's worse than the Eternal September. It's definitely more toxic than it's ever been, and people are definitely more polarized. The 2016 election news cycle got a lot of otherwise normal people really radicalized and hostile. Sure most of the old-timers among us remember, often fondly, the constructive insanity of usenet. And the younger generation remembers the torrent of pure id that was 4chan in the early days, a…

>Now it's invading your real life, your real-world friendships, your workplace, even your family. I fully expect in the future for there to be a segment of the population that chooses to "drop out" of the always-connected digital social life for these reasons. And I don't just mean giving up Facebook, but going back to analog social circles only, as well as ignoring those who are still connected (and hooked) digitall…

I have already started doing this. I use my phone for calling people, listening to music, reading books, and directions when I'm lost. I have given up Facebook. Twitter. Gmail. Google. And a bunch more besides. I hadn't realized how much the Google/Gmail ecosystem was affecting me, how it fed me news based on links and news based on what I'd clicked, and how that affected me. Since I have given these things, particularly the Google filter bubble, up, I am calmer and happier. That's not to say that I am perfect, or perfectly calm, or anything like that. But I am significantly better than I was a year ago.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#690

Post by anigbrowl »

panzagl wrote: post #578
thebokehwokeh2 wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that in this case, it deplatforming absolutely worked in the way intended. There are 2 factors at play here. People who are willing to argue in good faith, and people who are simply trying to put forth an agenda regardless of what anyone says. Those who likely moved to Gab and Voat and 4/8chan are likely persons that fit the latter description. There is no need to even have discussions with people like thes…

Deplatforming can't work- otherwise the world would now be as white-bread homophobic and misogynistic as it was in the 50's when blacks, gays, and women were deplatformed.

That kind of implies those social groups all had full participation on the social platform and were then kicked off it, no? I don't think you've thought this analogy through fully.
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