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Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

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Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that in this case, it deplatforming absolutely worked in the way intended. There are 2 factors at play here. People who are willing to argue in good faith, and people who are simply trying to put forth an agenda regardless of what anyone says. Those who likely moved to Gab and Voat and 4/8chan are likely persons that fit the latter description. There is no need to even have discussions with people like thes…

Deplatforming can't work- otherwise the world would now be as white-bread homophobic and misogynistic as it was in the 50's when blacks, gays, and women were deplatformed.

Wasn't the civil war a country destroying war about deplatforming slave ownership? Had the confederates truly been wiped off the face of the earth, we likely would not even be having this discussion in the first place.

How about WW2 which was essentially about deplatforming the nazis? That worked out quite well for many MANY parts of humanity.

Deplatforming is a new word that has been weaponized by people of a certain political persuation, but the reality is that it is simply the nipping of a perceived organized destructive idea in the bud.

I realize this may cut both ways but I am of the belief that too many people exist in a fantasyworld where good faith arguments are the majority of discussion on the internet. Bigots rarely ever actually want to partake in good faith discussion.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#602
post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the average left-leaning person today doesn't see bigots even as people any more. I spend the bulk of my time studying extremist discourse and communities. Extremist bigots take it as read that people of the wrong ethnic/religious/political group are either not people or at best inferior people, and direct their efforts to promoting those views, planning how to eliminate those they dislike, and normalizing that b…

> Extremist bigots take it as read that people of the wrong ethnic/religious/political group are either not people or at best inferior people, and direct their efforts to promoting those views, planning how to eliminate those they dislike, and normalizing that behavior. Uh, well, isn't that the same that some leftwing activist advocate for those they disagree with? Deplatforming, censorship, criminalisation?

I don't think it's fair to call this phenomenon "leftwing". My perception is that those who advocate deplatforming/censorship are centrists who call themselves "progressives". They do this mostly in order to support existing power structures that they fear are threatened by free speech. Very few actual leftists in the American context are against free speech.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#603
Platforms must be responsible for what they publish. If NBC ran child pornography, it'd be held responsible. Facebook runs it and says, oops in ten years we'll have AI to not show you that.

If you want to be a miserable person online, find an ISP willing to host your garbage until they get held responsible as well.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everyone who has an allergic reaction to a vaccination is going to have medical documentation of that. Maybe their parents couldn't afford to take them back to the doctor for confirmation. Maybe they couldn't take the time off work. That happens, especially among the poor. This is what allergy testing is for. If you don't have the paperwork, then you can get tested. The fact that people don't have time to get t…

You claim that 1) they won't have to be vaccinated because they can get tested, 2) they don't get tested because of class stratification, but 3) you present no solution to class stratification. And then you claim that it isn't a reasonable point to say that they would be forced to be vaccinated! You... um... rather failed to put together a coherent argument there. Or if you did, I failed to follow it...

Your argument would be similar to the following.

1) Some people don't vaccinate because they have to eat first.

2) Because eating is more important than vaccinations, it would be inhumane to make vaccinations mandatory.

3) Ergo, you cannot make vaccinations mandatory until you solve world hunger.

At that point why do anything at all? Decision paralysis makes things impossible to solve because this arbitrary person I made up doesn't have time for anything so you have to solve this completely irrelevant issue in order to free up time first so that they can then get to the point of order.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You listed the 'very fine people' hoax so I don't think your judgement is very well calibrated here. There's a bunch of quotes with no context and some things that not even the most expansive definition of racism would cover. Tweeting about the squad? Leaving andrew jackson on the $20? Are you saying that land seizures and killing of white farmers don't actually happen in south africa? If the only source is 'the new…

Whattaboutism is not a good rebuke of any of what I have listed above. The truth that your idol is a racist is very unfortunate as it is uncomfortable for you, isn't it.

There are certainly a far greater example of racism exhibited by your emperor, but I can see a bad faith actor when I see one.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you de-platform people they still think the way that they think, you just don't see what they're thinking and have no ability to challenge it. Then they turn up and vote...

However, what they don’t do is convert loads of other people to their way of thinking.

Some get woke, others get red-pilled.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#607

I don't know if I know the solution, but I know one thing that isn't the solution: silencing everyone who disagrees with you. A lot of the people complaining about "toxicity" on the internet seem to be under the impression that if we "deplatform" the so-called toxic people, that will fix things. But on the contrary, that makes things worse. If someone says something awful on the internet, and everyone either ignores…

The data suggests that deplatforming works. Milo; Katie Hopkins; InfoWars et al have all lost their former agenda-setting influence following deplatforming. And studies have shown that banning hate sub-Reddits does _not_ cause that content to “pop up elsewhere”, it causes it to decline overall. It’s important to remember too there are incentives for people to argue and behave otherwise: FB, Twitter, hate-speech monge…

Banning speech might fix anti-vax but it also might have caused vaccines to never be legal to begin with.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that in this case, it deplatforming absolutely worked in the way intended. There are 2 factors at play here. People who are willing to argue in good faith, and people who are simply trying to put forth an agenda regardless of what anyone says. Those who likely moved to Gab and Voat and 4/8chan are likely persons that fit the latter description. There is no need to even have discussions with people like thes…

Deplatforming can't work- otherwise the world would now be as white-bread homophobic and misogynistic as it was in the 50's when blacks, gays, and women were deplatformed.

This isn't same thing and you know it. Deplatforming someone for being racist, homophobic and sexist is and should continue to be encouraged.

In your example, what they were doing was fundamentally wrong and if you asked any good person today they would tell you as much.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#609
post #586

Progressives think that the alt right is toxic, and vice versa. So then the question is: whose view of toxicity is right? The answer we have so far is: whoever protests the loudest or whoever controls the medium. Although it's the answer we've got, it's far from obvious that it's the right answer. Progressives seem to have gained the upper hand at this point.

They're both right. Both positions are often not contingent upon kindness, compassion, and a desire to maintain or increase everyone's wellbeing.

It seems to me that each side is right about the other.

Re: Ask HN: How do we stop the polarization/toxicicity filling the web?

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might sound mean because it is text, but it isn't, it's just answering your question. But the word (actually term) you're looking for is social justice warrior.

>>In reply to child post by oneplane Hey welcome to the culture war :D The trick is not to take it too seriously. Also South park is an amazing resource / commentary on it... :D

If you have so little skin in the game that you can maintain that attitude, you should probably stay out of the discussion.
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